I did do all of the tutorials and it does explain some stuff. The tutorials were good for a Paradox game, but I wish there was some sort of place to get detailed info about the mechanics. The tutorials skim the surface. I'm just not a player who enjoys learning the rules of a game by trial and error.
Is there a good place that explains the game concepts and mechanics?
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Well, there is stuff we just don't know yet, otherwise I would do it. 
Perhaps the betas can help some enterprising folks fire up a wiki? The mechanics are pretty damn complicated, I agree, and having people with some experience might make it easier to get the ball rolling.
I am not sure if the NDA still prevents them from talking about game mechanics now that it is released, though.
Perhaps the betas can help some enterprising folks fire up a wiki? The mechanics are pretty damn complicated, I agree, and having people with some experience might make it easier to get the ball rolling.
I am not sure if the NDA still prevents them from talking about game mechanics now that it is released, though.
I totally agree with OP.
There needs to be a STRATEGY guide that gives you a sort of "What" to do and "Why" to do it using examples as a tutorial.
Once we have gone through a kingdom building excercise, we may not feel like we are drowning in a desperate attempt to spawn before the game decides we have died.
There needs to be a STRATEGY guide that gives you a sort of "What" to do and "Why" to do it using examples as a tutorial.
Once we have gone through a kingdom building excercise, we may not feel like we are drowning in a desperate attempt to spawn before the game decides we have died.
I'm not great at the game, I do have a decent understanding, and I'm willing to contribute to a wiki, if someone starts one. It would also be great if new players could submit questions that they want answers to, both specific and general questions. That way people know what to answer and talk about.
Paradox's help; manuals, tutorials, etc; always focus purely on the "how". How you arrange a marriage, how you declare war. They need to talk about other things like what exactly is the effect of an arranged marriage, why arrange one, when to do it, things like that. I usually have no idea what to actually do when I get a new Paradox game, but if I did know, I'd at least know how to do it.
Me? Hell I'm still playing the demo until I can figure out the different aspects in the game. I don't even know if I'll enjoy the game yet because I only understand like 10% of it at best.
Step your tutorial game up paradox~
I have a rather hard time imagining a scenario in which any reasonably intelligent individual could play through the CK2 tutorial and not have a decent enough grasp on the game mechanics to comfortably go off on their own. Is it perfect? No. But it IS by far the best tutorial they've ever put into a game. Suggesting that it isn't, at the very least, "acceptable" is rather asinine.
Also, even if I hated their products, I would still gladly support Paradox for the simple fact that, unlike pretty much every other game developer out there these days, it is not their policy to tailor every little bit of their games to the least common denominator among all computer gamers. The second they started watering things down like you want, they would lose me. And probably a fair few others.
And I would call you an ignorant count for saying that, sir.
Paradox game style, formulation, gameplay, layout, game engine and wording is familiar to old veterans or people who played paradox title before a lot, yes. But for a new player to get in, it is rather tough. It could be tough to get into a brand new paradox game too, even for people who played before.
I have to disagree with you. I played through the tutorials and yes I can arrange marriages, tell me councelors to go on missions, raise my armies and move them around...
They just don't cover any meaty material. At least in prior games the manuals made an attempt to explain many of the mechanics. This manual didn't really.
Paradox games do have a bit of a learning curve. I used the EU3 wiki a lot before I really started enjoying that game.
For CK2, I watched a lot of of the Let's Plays. ParadoxianLP's and Secret Masters's were especially helpful. Simply watching and listening to the strategy of someone else was indispensable. Of course I'm still making my own rookie mistakes: I really need to start checking the Alliance tab of my enemies before declaring war.
For CK2, I watched a lot of of the Let's Plays. ParadoxianLP's and Secret Masters's were especially helpful. Simply watching and listening to the strategy of someone else was indispensable. Of course I'm still making my own rookie mistakes: I really need to start checking the Alliance tab of my enemies before declaring war.
I actually think this is going to be a good entry level game for anybody who is new to Paradox. It took me a couple weeks to understand Hearts of Iron and Victoria II. But with this game, I'm not totally familiar with everything but I am understanding most of it and having fun on the first day. It took me ten to fifteen hours to get to this point on the previous games.
Funny how we are all different. I found HOI and Vicky to be easier to understand. This game seems like it should be simpler because it doesn't seem like there is as much to do (at least compared to HOI). EU III just seemed to make more sense to me too.
quite the opposite for me.
I really enjoy HOI II and those games right out of the gate pretty much.
This one is not as intuitive. I get that some people feel it would be silly to provide a STRATEGY guide as opposed to the mechanics of it. However, if enough of us are asking for it, does it really matter if you think it's silly?
It's a bit like they have taught us the controls of an airplane, but not the reason we would want to raise or lower the landing gear and what altitude we should fly if we were flying commercial planes.
What I need is an outline of how to run a very big country;
Step 1, step 2, step 3, "if this, then you may want to do that, and here is why"
Once I have that, I am sure I would enjoy this game.
As it stands, I found myself frustrated and contemplating setting the game on easy difficulty just to try to muddle through it.
I really enjoy HOI II and those games right out of the gate pretty much.
This one is not as intuitive. I get that some people feel it would be silly to provide a STRATEGY guide as opposed to the mechanics of it. However, if enough of us are asking for it, does it really matter if you think it's silly?
It's a bit like they have taught us the controls of an airplane, but not the reason we would want to raise or lower the landing gear and what altitude we should fly if we were flying commercial planes.
What I need is an outline of how to run a very big country;
Step 1, step 2, step 3, "if this, then you may want to do that, and here is why"
Once I have that, I am sure I would enjoy this game.
As it stands, I found myself frustrated and contemplating setting the game on easy difficulty just to try to muddle through it.
First of all, there is inheritance. You want your heir to be of your dynasty, because otherwise you loose the game. The blood drop in the upper right of the portraits is whether they are of your blood line. Next there are the succession laws. They determine inheritance. You want to get to primogeniture, which is very hard if your a vassal. In primogeniture, all your titles go to your first born son or daughter, depending on your gender laws. Gavelkind is the worst, since it splits up your titles. That means less territory you control directly, so less income, and less levies. You want to keep your children in your court until they are married, so they marry. The AI sometimes either waits too long to marry or does dumb stuff. You want to invite claimants to titles to your court because you can press them. This is helpful, because they are normally inherited at least one generation, and marrying them into your family can get your family more claims. But you have to watch out for your family, they want your titles. Levies you can raise of vassals are based on the laws, and their opinion of you. You also can raise levies from your own personal demense, the land you own yourself. Marry young people so you have more kids. You want enough heirs so that if something happens to one of them, there is still someone of your bloodline/dynasty to inherit. Too many siblings can be problematic however, as they all will have claims when your child inherits. To declare war on other Christians you need a claim. You can get one through marriage, or passed down from your parents, or inviting a claimant to court, or fabricating one with your chancellor. Make sure your vassals are happy. Watch out for succession, as you will get a short rein penalty for 9 years. This will make vassals dislike you more. One plot they can do is to institute elective monarchy. This makes it so any noble can become heir, but all vassals vote. So, if your vassals like you enough, you can pretty much choose heir. But it is dangerous if they don't like you. Assassination is a helpful tool, but dangerous. People can hate you and maybe revolt if you are caught. Make sure you marry your children off. Your wife may plot to kill you. Be wary of any and all family members, but you can trust them more than a normal person.
Just some basic advice. Very jumbled up, but hopefully you get something from it.
Just some basic advice. Very jumbled up, but hopefully you get something from it.
To add on to flame7926's basic advice, elective monarchy works on the basis of electors, who are people that hold a title one tier below your primary title. Eg if your a king, then people who hold on to duke titles are electors; if your an emperor, then people who hold to king and duke titles are electors.
Knowing this, an advantage can arise if you're a king and you hold all the duke titles present in the kingdom, as this allows you to nominate any successor as you please without any fear of pretenders. But do note that the more elector-titles you hoard, the more your vassals get pissed with you. So it's a balancing act of sorts
Knowing this, an advantage can arise if you're a king and you hold all the duke titles present in the kingdom, as this allows you to nominate any successor as you please without any fear of pretenders. But do note that the more elector-titles you hoard, the more your vassals get pissed with you. So it's a balancing act of sorts
I don't want them to water anything down, I just want them to document the game enough so that you don't need to go to an online videogame message board in order to learn how to play it.
Like someone said they teach you how to use the game interface, thats all, they don't teach you what the effect of your actions are, nor strategy. There are chasm sized gaping holes in their tutorials.
Would love to know how long the penalty is for recently conquered, but it requires a search of the forums because this info isn't easily available either in a tooltip or in the manual. Frustrating.
*Edit* Found it.. the tooltip delay hiding this information on hover was very unhelpful.
*Edit* Found it.. the tooltip delay hiding this information on hover was very unhelpful.
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No it doesnt. But now that i got rid of my habbit not registering (while i havent bought a game after EU2 and CK1 anyway) i become a stupid nitpicker myself.
Edit: I bought FtG, but i gifted it away.