Is the nomadic trait, along with "pop growth from immigration", broken?

[BakedPotato]

I vaguely remember it contributing to pop growth in prior versions, but now it doesn't seem to do anything anymore. Am I misunderstanding how it works, like is it an increase in chance a pop will automatically resettle? I feel like it's a useless trait now, along with that corvee civic.

 

[Olterin]

It does still contribute to pop growth from migration ... it's just that pop growth from migration hardly ever happens anymore, so you're mostly right. It's mostly relevant to migration treaties between empires, if you have a vastly superior migration pull so as to siphon off growth from other empires - then you'll get slightly more growth on nomadic species.

I do not know whether it influences the chances of a pop resettling - logically, both nomadic and sedentary should influence that, but whether they actually do..?

 

[LayZboy]

It does work, but the great pop culling made it less useful than it already was (which wasn't much), so enjoy your free trait point.

 

[HFY]

I feel like it's a useless trait now, along with that corvee civic.

Corvee System also removes the Influence cost to resettle, so if you're using an empire which can Resettle -- and you have an OCD need to put your immigrants and slaves on the correct colonies -- then it's not bad at all.

It's mostly relevant to migration treaties between empires, if you have a vastly superior migration pull so as to siphon off growth from other empires - then you'll get slightly more growth on nomadic species.

So basically, if another empire has this trait, then it benefits me and not them?

Sounds like a thing to fix.

 

[fusei]

So basically, if another empire has this trait, then it benefits me and not them?

No, it depends on the pops you are growing on your worlds. It doesn't matter which pops actually emigrate from their worlds.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

It's most relevant if you're playing a single species empire (or genemodding it onto all your species), since that way the bonus is always being applied. Same as Rapid Breeders.

I feel like it's a useless trait now, along with that corvee civic.

Corvee is great because dropping the influence cost to resettling means I can keep a squad of 23 pops to hop to each new colony and instantly hit the capital upgrade pop thresholds for easy access to the extra building slots and capital tier locked buildings. This is especially good when you start doing habitats, since you only need 8 pops and the saved influence goes directly towards building more habitats.

 

[BakedPotato]

So how can the trait be re-balanced or improved to make it relevant again? Kinda sucks because I'm old school in that I still play un-edited UNE and CoM from time-to-time.

 

[HFY]

So how can the trait be re-balanced or improved to make it relevant again?

- Remove "immigration" and "emmigration" from growth; only use logistic formula and traits like Fast / Slow Breeders to modify pop growth.

+ Trait gives +50% chance to auto-migrate.
+ Trait retains cheaper Resettlement cost, which is nice if your empire allows Resettlement but you can't fit in Corvee System.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

So how can the trait be re-balanced or improved to make it relevant again? Kinda sucks because I'm old school in that I still play un-edited UNE and CoM from time-to-time.

It's a math problem. If we accept that Rapid Breeders is balanced at 2 trait points for a flat +10% growth on all colonies, how much of a growth from immigration bonus do you need to average, say, +3% growth over all your colonies (given the lower 1 point cost and additional effect)?

 

[BakedPotato]

- Remove "immigration" and "emmigration" from growth; only use logistic formula and traits like Fast / Slow Breeders to modify pop growth.

+ Trait gives +50% chance to auto-migrate.
+ Trait retains cheaper Resettlement cost, which is nice if your empire allows Resettlement but you can't fit in Corvee System.

This is currently how I view the trait, it's for authoritarians to reduce resettlement cost. Also works really nice with the Doomsday origin, but that's only for a brief period.

I like the suggestion for the auto-migrate.

 

[fusei]

So how can the trait be re-balanced or improved to make it relevant again? Kinda sucks because I'm old school in that I still play un-edited UNE and CoM from time-to-time.

The main source of emigration push is lack of housing and unemployment, with the auto-resettle function this rarely happens before the endgame, so a way to balance this would be to introduce more sources for emigration push like a more gradual curve that kicks in before you actually lack housing or emigration push for low happiness or if you really want to go wild for a difference in living standard.

 

[HFY]

This is currently how I view the trait, it's for authoritarians to reduce resettlement cost. Also works really nice with the Doomsday origin, but that's only for a brief period.

I like the suggestion for the auto-migrate.

My thinking about auto-migration is that (a) if you're playing well, it's the majority of the migration that you'll see, and (b) it's a good mechanic which the game should build around more.

 

[BakedPotato]

My thinking about auto-migration is that (a) if you're playing well, it's the majority of the migration that you'll see, and (b) it's a good mechanic which the game should build around more.

It fits the trait's flavor text, too.

This species has a nomadic past, and its members often think nothing of RELOCATING to another world.

Guess this thread should've been posted in the suggestions section for the custodian team's consideration.

 

[fusei]

- Remove "immigration" and "emmigration" from growth; only use logistic formula and traits like Fast / Slow Breeders to modify pop growth.

Migration is not only a growth modifier, it also determines which species that are not present on a planet you can grow there, also removing migration in favour of auto-resettle would mean that it only works inside an empire and not between them.

 

[HFY]

Migration is not only a growth modifier, it also determines which species that are not present on a planet you can grow there, also removing migration in favour of auto-resettle would mean that it only works inside an empire and not between them.

Yeah, and I'd remove that entirely in favor of only growing what's on the planet already.

That fixes several problems, including losing all growth when the species you were growing suddenly ISN'T emigrating as hard (which costs you all growth + 1 month as the planet is set to grow "empty" for 1 month before even trying to choose something new to grow), and including the game's annoying habit of picking the least-represented species.

Let auto-migration (or manual resettlement, or refugee events) put new species on the planet first, then let planetary growth make more of them.

Let migration treaties allow (a) colony ships with xeno species; and (b) auto-migration between empires; and finally (c) increased refugee access in case of invasion or other emergency.

 

[fusei]

Yeah, and I'd remove that entirely in favor of only growing what's on the planet already.

That fixes several problems, including losing all growth when the species you were growing suddenly ISN'T emigrating as hard (which costs you all growth + 1 month as the planet is set to grow "empty" for 1 month before even trying to choose something new to grow), and including the game's annoying habit of picking the least-represented species.

Let auto-migration (or manual resettlement, or refugee events) put new species on the planet first, then let planetary growth make more of them.

Let migration treaties allow (a) colony ships with xeno species; and (b) auto-migration between empires; and finally (c) increased refugee access in case of invasion or other emergency.

The problem I see is, that this conflicts with other mechanics like the auto-resettle bonus from transit hubs and greater good, this would mean you lose pops faster instead of distributing them throughout your empire faster.

I'm in favour of letting each developed world generating some emigration push, this way you can hardly run out of emigration push for any species you'd like to grow.

 

[HFY]

The problem I see is, that this conflicts with other mechanics like the auto-resettle bonus from transit hubs and greater good, this would mean you lose pops faster instead of distributing them throughout your empire faster.

I'm in favour of letting each developed world generating some emigration push, this way you can hardly run out of emigration push for any species you'd like to grow.

I think they'd just stack, not conflict.

And the negative trait would reduce that pop's chance to auto-migrate, just like the slave processing building does.

But yeah, under The Greater Good you'd lose pops faster, just like 3.x Egalitarian empires lose pops faster than Authoritarian slavers (with the slave processing building).

This would not create a new problem.

 

[fusei]

I think they'd just stack, not conflict.

And the negative trait would reduce that pop's chance to auto-migrate, just like the slave processing building does.

But yeah, under The Greater Good you'd lose pops faster, just like 3.x Egalitarian empires lose pops faster than Authoritarian slavers (with the slave processing building).

This would not create a new problem.

The new problem would be that you lose pops to other empires, you don't want to speed this up. As it is now you just distribute them in your own empire which is a good thing.

 

[HFY]

The new problem would be that you lose pops to other empires, you don't want to speed this up. As it is now you just distribute them in your own empire which is a good thing.

I think it's not new.

Imbalance in migration should already happen if you don't build slave processing centers, or if you're Egalitarian.

 

[fusei]

I think it's not new.

Imbalance in migration should already happen if you don't build slave processing centers, or if you're Egalitarian.

Right now losing pops to actual migration can be completely mitigated, if you roll that into auto-resettle and open it to other empires this is no longer the case.