Is the Mongol Invasion CB overpowered?

[Hootieleece]

In my most recent game as Hungary.The Mongols invaded Sweden in the "Invasion of Upper Volga"(I know don't ask, but Sweden owned land in Eastern Russia) They are my Ally and my Heir is Heir to both Kingdoms.So of course I fought war against them.War went well for awhile won some battles was keeping war score low.(I lost my whole Kingdom Levy 85k manpower)Finally Sweden surrenders and since Mongols also captured provinces in Finland those go to them also.

My question is since Christian/Muslim Crusade/Jihad and Invasion CB only allow you to capture Provinces and holdings in DeJure Kingdoms.How did Mongols get Finland?If their CB works the same.

 

[EmperorOfIberia]

They will run out of steam eventually. Just persevere.

 

[Tiuz]

The Tribal Invasion CB targets a whole realm and success subjugates the whole realm to Mongol rule (i.e. all of it becomes a vassal of the Mongols). It's intended to be scary and overpowering, although it's more their Horse Archer stacks that are not tied to provinces and suffer no attrition that make them a threat.

As after conquering a few realms Mongol rule is quite heterogenous with several cultures and religions they tend to have constant internal strife after a while, not giving them enough free time to conquer more.

So no, i wouldn't say it's overpowered.

 

[TheGreatSnoop]

I've got to say I was a little dissapointed in my last game, after watching the Kingdom of Rus form and grow to a powerful Eastern European power...only to be completely destroyed by the Golden Horde in no time at all...it's like their huge kingdom couldn't even put up a fight.

I was really hoping a huge Russian Kingdom would be able to give the Mongols a run for their money, but nope, just steamrolled.

 

[binTravkin]

Which is kind of historical, knowing that a mongol recon force of 2 units (tumens) or 20k troops completely routed the combined armies of Rus princes and cumans at the battle of Kalka River.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Kalka_River

No AI should be able to stop mongols as historically they were stopped by infighting and fighting in hazardous areas (jungle in Viet Nam) or against unseen enemies (elephants of India and sea/wind of Japan).
Europa was only saved by lucky timing of deaths of Ghengis (1227), Ogedei (1241) and Mongke (1259).

If anything, you should be happy that mongols are what they should be.

 

[unmerged(200905)]

bit of topic but why did mongols invade eastern europe , i heard it was because they beleaved that the pope was satan and the went on a kinda holy war . but never really understood tbh

 

[binTravkin]

No, they just invaded because they could.

IRL there were no offensive "casus belli" and if a ruler really needed one, they'd just make it up / fabricate it.
Defensive CBs kind of existed - like starting wars in defense of somebody or as a reply to insult and other various reasons.
This was very relative as well, as the "strength" of the CB was strongly proportional to the ruler's authority - if he/she couldn't gather enough backing from their own country (nobles), their war either wouldn't start at all or go really bad.

There were Nestorian christians between Mongols, notably the first Ilkhans had significant Nestorian christian influence from their wives, which resulted in favourable treatment of christians in their area.
Also, Sartaq, the designated successor of Batu Khan, the first ruler of Golden Horde, was a christian, baptized in 1254.
He died a suspicious death while returning from Great Khan with permission to rule the Horde, which allowed his brother Berke to become the ruler.
Berke eventually converted to sunni faith, what in large part can be attributed to most of his stead being turkic and sunni.

 

[31ric]

Yep. Fast horse riders. Dozens of em. Without fear.
And Kingdom of Rus. Huge territory (if you take Russian Empire), which makes it almost impossible to gather troops to defend.
If player will delay surrounding as long as he can and fight until he will be completely destroyed, AI will surrender very fast with a hope of keeping some territories under control.
But once wars for independent will start it will not be a big deal to get apart.

 

[Bialaska]

While Mongol horse archers are great, I think heavy cavalry is better, unless my commander was much better? I know my very heavy cavalry loaded army stood quite well against the Mongols, if only because the Rus forced me to join them due to me marrying off a daughter to the Rus. As the still strong Byzantine Empire I just sent my own levies (didn't want anyone to hate me) and those consisted mostly of Light Cavalry, Horse Archers and Heavy Cavalry due to me mainly building up horse buildings in my provinces.

 

[31ric]

Heavy Cavalry may be better, but not always. Same as any heavy troops.
I don't know how this is implemented in game (by buffs and debuffs on terrain type), but those heavy troops can be beaten easy enough with distant and fast units.

 

[Mutineer]

As a player, it is not that dificult to stop mongolls. Generally you will loose first war, no question asked. But after that mongor actually honor truce. So, you have all this time to send your armies to help other folk they are attacking, gradially killing there innitial nasty stack. Declare wars on any parts of there empire that revolt and take them back, again, hopeffully in precess kill some of there armies, because you will be hostile, but not in war. In time truce expire they will no longer be a treat.

 

[Raczynski]

It's supposed to be overpowered. Mongols should be the end bosses of CK2. That said, I don't think it currently works very well in vanilla. Often they'll conquer a large kingdom and then get bogged down with revolts for decades.

 

[Comradebot]

The Tribal Invasion CB targets a whole realm and success subjugates the whole realm to Mongol rule (i.e. all of it becomes a vassal of the Mongols). It's intended to be scary and overpowering, although it's more their Horse Archer stacks that are not tied to provinces and suffer no attrition that make them a threat.

As after conquering a few realms Mongol rule is quite heterogenous with several cultures and religions they tend to have constant internal strife after a while, not giving them enough free time to conquer more.

So no, i wouldn't say it's overpowered.

That's no longer accurate. Since 1.05 (I think), Mongol Invasions now target a de jure kingdom, NOT an entire realm. When the Mongols win, they gain that de jure kingdom's land along with any other territory they might've occupied. Gone are the horrid days when a Mongol force could attack France because they have a single county in Russia, and proceed to occupy all of France because of it. Instead, you get a much more realistic and organic process. It's great to watch the various Russian groups slowly fall back in the face of the Mongol tide.

Now if only we can get it to work like reality and have some of the subjugated peoples retain their ruler-ships. Instead, they either rebel or get revoked and replaced all with Mongols. Shame, the starting situation in 1337 with the Golden Horde ruling over all the conquered peoples is fantastic looking.



But in short, there's nothing overpowered with the Mongol Invasion CB. It's really right about where it should be. They strike hard and fast, but eventually peter out. Maybe one day we'll see em' crush the HRE, but that'd take a sizable amount of luck for the AI to pull off.

 

[Rozmarzony]

Mongols OP? Not in the current patch.
Just look at that screen.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/560948350805727651/7CFF374F48FB6F07F45AEDA0B629C64B6E9198AA/ (While Kaiser is in allies, Russians won alone).
: /
Rebelions against Mongols should be nerfed or many states should be independent with paying tribute instead being part of GH.

 

[unmerged(530695)]

Europa was only saved by lucky timing of deaths of Ghengis (1227), Ogedei (1241) and Mongke (1259).

Ptshh. I don't think the Mongols would have had long-term luck in central / western Europe, with its rugged terrain and wet climate. I'm sure they would have shared the eventual fate of all other central-asian steppe riders that tried a European invasion, from Alans over Huns to Hungarians. Initial successes and then *bam* crushing defeat.

 

[fridabina]

Ptshh. I don't think the Mongols would have had long-term luck in central / western Europe, with its rugged terrain and wet climate. I'm sure they would have shared the eventual fate of all other central-asian steppe riders that tried a European invasion, from Alans over Huns to Hungarians. Initial successes and then *bam* crushing defeat.

Are u implying that China doesnt have rugged terrain and wet climate?
Because they managed to conquer that.

Also yes they would have shared the same fate as all steppe invaders but that doesnt change the fact that they probably COULD subjugate the HRE. (If they had any plans for it, Chin and Song took most of their forces.)

 

[Tiuz]

That's no longer accurate. Since 1.05 (I think), Mongol Invasions now target a de jure kingdom, NOT an entire realm. When the Mongols win, they gain that de jure kingdom's land along with any other territory they might've occupied.

Good change indeed. Thanks for correcting my outdated knowledge and curses to the decline of my free time in the last weeks.

 

[unmerged(431840)]

Ptshh. I don't think the Mongols would have had long-term luck in central / western Europe, with its rugged terrain and wet climate. I'm sure they would have shared the eventual fate of all other central-asian steppe riders that tried a European invasion, from Alans over Huns to Hungarians. Initial successes and then *bam* crushing defeat.

I agree that in the long term the Mongols weren't likely to rule over Europe. However people live in the short term. The fact that Paris would eventually be ruled by the French again wouldn't be much consolation to its inhabitants.

 

[grisamentum]

It's supposed to be overpowered. Mongols should be the end bosses of CK2. That said, I don't think it currently works very well in vanilla. Often they'll conquer a large kingdom and then get bogged down with revolts for decades.

just like in real life

 

[Lord Finnish]

That's what the Russians said.