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adriankowaty

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I gues thats an option.

Maybe me and a few million Croats can come over to your country and try our luck there.
Leave the EU as the country. If you feel disappointed you can do your croaxit freely.
As long as it'd not cause the trouble within other area.
The other thing is to either reform the EU or face it's current state.
 

Anatur

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Leave the EU as the country. If you feel disappointed you can do your croaxit freely.
As long as it'd not cause the trouble within other area.
The other thing is to either reform the EU or face it's current state.

I think you misunderstood my statements.

Im not blaming the EU for my problems,they exist independent of the EU,hence leaving or staying wont make much difference.

The only real solution i can see for my country is if someone larger,scarier and more decisive shows up and forces his will upon my nation and makes it behave,even if for no other reason than to make its own rule of us easier and more efficient.
 

adriankowaty

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I think you misunderstood my statements.

Im not blaming the EU for my problems,they exist independent of the EU,hence leaving or staying wont make much difference.

The only real solution i can see for my country is if someone larger,scarier and more decisive shows up and forces his will upon my nation and makes it behave,even if for no other reason than to make its own rule of us easier and more efficient.
Then you misunderstand what the EU is supposed to be.
It's states collective. You've paneuropean problem which should be solved by cooperation between nation members and local ones, which are solved by the local authorities.
The EU will give you dotations in terms of trouble, but will expect you to behave independetely in your own matters (your country is getting dotations, but your local authorities decide, on which state's development should focus).
If you prefer centralized approach, then I'm preety sure that Croatia would be better with the Russia sphere. But I'm preety sure that it isn't good alternative.
Also, the rule of law and freedoms of citizens. I don't want to be a subject of an local buissness owner, I want to be free citizen doing what I want and is good with.
If you really want authoritarian approach, then Russia is for you.
Bot not for me.
 

Adamgerd

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I could understand you if you wanted to return the "good old days" of the communist block under USSR (well most people remember only the later years which were relatively peaceful and without much repression, unlike the 50s), but Austria? The monarchy that in the end managed to be even more inept than the Russians and only matched by the Ottomans despite having a much better starting position? Some very rosy tinted glasses you wear :)
Without much repression? What about the Prague Spring end by invasion? Is that peaceful?! The communist regime was much worse in Czech than the Austrian one. Our economy went from 8th to in the second half of Europe.

You can read what the Czechs think about anyone governing them from Adamgerd (and I do think he catches the public mood pretty well, but there IS a sizeable minority there which appreciates what EU does for them), and I can safely say a referendum about joining Austria-Hungary would fail spectacularly in Slovakia. The spectacular part would be mostly because of the Hungarian part (and I have a feeling all the slavic nations historically under the Hungarian part of the empire have similar feelings), but it would fail even with just Austria. Yes, there is also a lot of pub talk about badly governing ourselves etc. and it is mostly true, but a referendum is a different beast altogether. I think a referendum about remaining in the EU would probably fail at this time, but a referendum about leaving would definitely fail. We are just bad at referendums (there is a 50% quorum required), the two about joining EU and NATO were the only successfull ones in history :)

In the end, the EU is a much better alternative, and for you probably bonus points for it still being mostly led by the Germans :)
Maybe in Slovakia a referendum on leaving the EU would fail. Slovakia is slightly poorer though and well yeah had a rougher time in Hungary before Czech united with Slovakia (not that Slovakia thanked Czechs for that). However in a Czech referendum about leaving the EU between 60-80% of Czechs would vote to leave and so it would end probably with us leaving. What is the EU doing for us? It was giving us money, but the price for that money is loss of territorial sovereignty, loss of our legislation. Havel himself later became an EU sceptic and changed his mind about joining the EU and wanted Czech to leave. It does give us some benefits certainly but the price for those benefits is loss of our sovereignty and legislation. Also where is this sizable minority of pro-EU in Czech unless you mean the KSCM supporters and even then only around 17% of Czechs are not actively EU sceptic. Anyway the EU might be a benevolent empire but it is an empire nonetheless even if it has limited power
 
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adriankowaty

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Without much repression? What about the Prague Spring end by invasion? Is that peaceful?! The communist regime was much worse in Czech than the Austrian one. Our economy went from 8th to in the second half of Europe.


Maybe in Slovakia a referendum on leaving the EU would fail. Slovakia is slightly poorer though and well yeah had a rougher time in Hungary before Czech united with Slovakia (not that Slovakia thanked Czechs for that). However in a Czech referendum about leaving the EU between 60-80% of Czechs would vote to leave and so it would end probably with us leaving. What is the EU doing for us? It was giving us money, but the price for that money is loss of territorial sovereignty, loss of our legislation. Havel himself later became an EU sceptic and changed his mind about joining the EU and wanted Czech to leave. It does give us some benefits certainly but the price for those benefits is loss of our sovereignty and legislation. Also where is this sizable minority of pro-EU in Czech unless you mean the KSCM supporters and even then only around 17% of Czechs are not actively EU sceptic
Instead of praying for anarchy and giving back into Russian sphere, we should stay with Germans. For our both economical and political stability.
 

adriankowaty

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adriankowaty

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adriankowaty

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Congratulations to your great-grandfather.

My great-grandfather was posthumously decorated by the Yugoslav Partisans,not for fighting the Germans though,just some random Muslim SS division.
I don't like slavic irony.
And, if you really want to be out of Europe and live under someone's big brother there's Russia or Turkey.
 

Anatur

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I don't like slavic irony.
And, if you really want to be out of Europe and live under someone's big brother there's Russia or Turkey.

I was being genuine,no need to assume someones intentions.

Back to EU empire or not topic.

I personally consider the EU more of a bloated Holy Roman Empire in modern day.

It has theoretical leadership that has little actual control over the various members,has different layers of autonomy going from full member eurozone states to non-eurozone members,then you have Norway and Switzerland who arent members but have deep ties etc.

I doubt its even possible for it to consolidate into an empire of sorts since that would require an unprecedented level of national consensus.
 

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giphy.gif
 

DarthJF

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It has theoretical leadership that has little actual control over the various members,has different layers of autonomy going from full member eurozone states to non-eurozone members,then you have Norway and Switzerland who arent members but have deep ties etc.
Member states are the "theoretical leadership". The highest authority in the EU is the European Council which is made of the heads of government/state of the member states. That's something people for some reason often have difficulty grasping. At the end of the day, any decision made by the EU is done by European heads of governments coming together and deciding about something.

There is no shadowy government of secret bureucrats in Brussels. It's the member states themselves making all the decisions.
 

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It's no real option either.
Economical cooperation with Germany is a must and creating a competing power into the block would only manage to destroy the EU.
Who said economic cooperation with Germany is a must? Czech survived just fine without this cooperation. And doesn't competitiveness help?

Also I agree with Anatur's description of the EU in that it's like the HRE was in the 17th century
 

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Member states are the "theoretical leadership". The highest authority in the EU is the European Council which is made of the heads of government/state of the member states. That's something people for some reason often have difficulty grasping. At the end of the day, any decision made by the EU is done by European heads of governments coming together and deciding about something.

There is no shadowy government of secret bureucrats in Brussels. It's the member states themselves making all the decisions.

This is a good description of the EU in the 70s and 80s. The European Parliament does have quite a lot of real power now. I think the Brexit negotiations may make this very clear to anyone who doubts it.
 

DarthJF

Byzantophile Daimyō Finnia
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This is a good description of the EU in the 70s and 80s. The European Parliament does have quite a lot of real power now. I think the Brexit negotiations may make this very clear to anyone who doubts it.
European Parliament does have great deal of power these days, I agree. But it's not executive power, but more preparatory power. I give that in practice the Council usually does follow decisions made by the Parliament, but even today they still have the final say on everything.

Personally I'd say the Parliament has lot of outsourced power. De facto they are often driving decision making within the EU even if they're not doing so de jure.
 

viale

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My not-so-moderate suggestion for resolving my countries issues is this:

Modern_map_with_many_islands.png

See, I get your point about uniting all the lost tribes of Slavdom under their rightful ruler, but why Svalbard? that is pretty much just polar bears and Norwegians.