Is the Division between the Free Patch and DLC Awkward?(Building changes)

[Golladan]

And comes with far more benefits. A 3 Development province currently costs 7-10 Admin points, and also gives you a boost to your Trade Power. The cost in time, money and effort is frequently trivial as well.

What do you mean a 3 development province costs 7-10 admin points?

 

[Katsue]

What do you mean a 3 development province costs 7-10 admin points?

A province with 1 base tax and 25 Manpower, currently, costs a base of 10 admin points to core, or 7 if you have a claim. Obviously costs are going to change, but I don't expect them to move far from that baseline.

 

[Golladan]

A province with 1 base tax and 25 Manpower, currently, costs a base of 10 admin points to core, or 7 if you have a claim. Obviously costs are going to change, but I don't expect them to move far from that baseline.

Isn't it 20 points per base tax to core? Anyways that is all changing as development is going to be used for those calculations now.

You also have to take into account the possible dip cost for the peace deal. That the province comes with autonomy. The unrest that you may have to face that may also add an additional mil cost for harsh treatment. And of course the monetary cost and risk of the war itself.

As opposed to spending a mere 5 admin points on 20 provinces each for 20 base tax at absolutelly no effort.

 

[Exasperation]

The cost of increasing the base tax of a base tax 2 province and a base tax 10 province to 3 and 11 respectively is the same. Also the cost increase takes into account the total development done in the province. It's not per category.

The quotes you posted directly contradict at least part of what you contend. "There's a separate (smaller) penalty for total development in a province" in that context means exactly that increasing the base tax of a 10 base tax province is more expensive than increasing the base tax of a 2 base tax province. Remember, in the new system what we're used to calling "base tax" is now "total development".

Also, since there's a penalty for terrain, and very low base tax provinces tend to be hard-to-develop terrains like desert, it's even less likely that you'll be able to have a 20 province nation consisting of entirely minimum-cost provinces.

So if we assume based on the quotes you provided that instead of (5 + 5 * manual development) the cost is (2 * total development + 3 * manual development + terrain penalty), the cost of improving a "1 base tax" province (that is, 1 + 1 + 1 development to start with) by 1 base tax worth of development would be (6 + tp) + (11 + tp) + (16 + tp) = (33 + 3 * tp) total points. Assuming that the terrain penalty across your 20 * 1 base tax province nation is an average of 5 due to having a lot of deserts, mountains, etc, that gives a cost of 960 total points (at least 220 of which is admin). And if we assume flat 4 base tax, it goes up to (51 + 3 * tp) total points for each province, which is 1020 total points even if none of the provinces has a terrain penalty, and 1320 if it's an average penalty of 5. That puts it even farther from your "mere 100 points" than under the previous assumptions.

 

[Golladan]

The quotes you posted directly contradict at least part of what you contend. "There's a separate (smaller) penalty for total development in a province" in that context means exactly that increasing the base tax of a 10 base tax province is more expensive than increasing the base tax of a 2 base tax province. Remember, in the new system what we're used to calling "base tax" is now "total development".

Also, since there's a penalty for terrain, and very low base tax provinces tend to be hard-to-develop terrains like desert, it's even less likely that you'll be able to have a 20 province nation consisting of entirely minimum-cost provinces.

So if we assume based on the quotes you provided that instead of (5 + 5 * manual development) the cost is (2 * total development + 3 * manual development + terrain penalty), the cost of improving a "1 base tax" province (that is, 1 + 1 + 1 development to start with) by 1 base tax worth of development would be (6 + tp) + (11 + tp) + (16 + tp) = (33 + 3 * tp) total points. Assuming that the terrain penalty across your 20 * 1 base tax province nation is an average of 5 due to having a lot of deserts, mountains, etc, that gives a cost of 960 total points (at least 220 of which is admin). And if we assume flat 4 base tax, it goes up to (51 + 3 * tp) total points for each province, which is 1020 total points even if none of the provinces has a terrain penalty, and 1320 if it's an average penalty of 5. That puts it even farther from your "mere 100 points" than under the previous assumptions.

They don't contradict. The question asked was if the cost increases starts from 0 development (as in, a base 5 development province will already have a cost increase because it's 5 development) or if it starts from the point where you first increase the development. The answer was the latter. The terrain penalty is likely a % penalty and not a flat value. The separate but small penalty is probably also a % increase.

The formula for the cost of 1 increase, from what we we have been told and not including any development cost bonuses/penalties, would be something like:

cost = base + increase * (number of times developed)

 

[Exasperation]

They don't contradict. The question asked was if the cost increases starts from 0 development (as in, a base 5 development province will already have a cost increase because it's 5 development) or if it starts from the point where you first increase the development. The answer was the latter. The terrain penalty is likely a % penalty and not a flat value.

The formula for the cost of 1 increase, from what we we have been told and not including any development cost bonuses/penalties, would be something like:

cost = base + increase * (number of times developed)

No, the answer was that the "number of times developed" penalty starts counting from the first manual increase, but there is a separate (but smaller) penalty that includes all development (manual or base). There are three penalties listed: "terrain", "# of times developed", and "high development". The "# of times developed" doesn't include the base development. The "high development" does (but is smaller than "# of times developed").

If the terrain penalty is a % penalty, then that just means that if we assume it will cost an average of X points for a 1-1-1 province, it will cost proportionally more for a more highly developed province, making the costs in a realistic scenario higher by some amount.

 

[Katsue]

Isn't it 20 points per base tax to core?

Sorry, you're right. I'm used to provinces I conquer being overseas.

EDIT: I don't think the base cost of increasing development is going to be more than 10 Monarch Points, though, seeing as that's the cost of a building in the current system.

 

[neaiskink]

these discussions repeat with every DLC.
I honestly, i think there is no issue, unless your are playing an MP game and players have different DLCs. It could get unbalanced... but will probably not get. You will still be limited by MPs, so while DLC owners will go taller, non-owners will go wider.

I will buy the DLC after i finish my Ottomans run. Will be a good 60 of gaming (i.e. minimum 2 months real time). Then I will buy El Dorado and Common Sense

 

[Kollatius]

these discussions repeat with every DLC.
I honestly, i think there is no issue, unless your are playing an MP game and players have different DLCs. It could get unbalanced... but will probably not get. You will still be limited by MPs, so while DLC owners will go taller, non-owners will go wider.

I will buy the DLC after i finish my Ottomans run. Will be a good 60 of gaming (i.e. minimum 2 months real time). Then I will buy El Dorado and Common Sense

In mp, you get access to DLC features as long as the host has the DLC