Is the Commonwealth OP?

[Vivi_]

I don't really see why people are so reluctant to westernize as Poland.

Step 1 : take religious ideas.
Step 2 : westernize.

Rebels issue? DOW on anybody and your allies will clean the room.

 

[Beagá]

You don´t need to. Went Defender of Faith. Get + Missionary strength advisor. Done.

The only REAL problem that happened was that Warsaw was center of Reformed (Innovative?) and I got some of the events that decrease BT but increase 1 in the capital.

So 1600 and I have a 14 BT province with Center of Reformation. Talk about pain in the ass...

Humanism is probably better than religious overall.

 

[Vivi_]

Still the same thing, any admin ideas would do the job. You sink all your mana into ideas, you start to be far enough to westernize.

I love to westernize as Poland since you get ahead on everything. A good order could be : Religious, Aristocratic, Diplomatic, Administrative, and whatever.

Also, religious ideas allow you to convert both religion and culture early in game. You don't get any trouble, even after forming the PLC. And there are random events that covert a city, whatever his basetax is.

However the real strenght of PLC is his position. If you manage it well, you can crush Ottomans from start and get BYZ. Too bad I can't do thi in MP, people would probably ragequit if they see a 100+ forcelimit before 1500 hahaha.

 

[zemuzil]

I honestly belive they are too strong in the game. The major power in the east should be Russia not PLC

Still the same thing, any admin ideas would do the job. You sink all your mana into ideas, you start to be far enough to westernize.

I love to westernize as Poland since you get ahead on everything. A good order could be : Religious, Aristocratic, Diplomatic, Administrative, and whatever.

Also, religious ideas allow you to convert both religion and culture early in game. You don't get any trouble, even after forming the PLC. And there are random events that covert a city, whatever his basetax is.

However the real strenght of PLC is his position. If you manage it well, you can crush Ottomans from start and get BYZ. Too bad I can't do thi in MP, people would probably ragequit if they see a 100+ forcelimit before 1500 hahaha.

I find administrative and aristocracy is waste for Plc and i rather take
Quantity and innovative
instead

and influence instead diplomatic

 

[matk]

If people are too worried about PLC, know that dragging Poland into war until they get a king and/or funding Lithuanian pretender rebels stops the PU.

This is exactly my plan at the beginning of any game east of the HRE. Either drag someone big into a war vs. Poland (Lithuania for laughs, or Muscovy/Austria/Ottomans, etc.) or ally them and pull them into your war as an ally. They're never a major threat if they don't get the PU and Lithuania usually ends up food for rebels or Russians without the union. Bonus points if you can give Lithuanian land to Poland or vice-versa somehow. They will dislike eachother and the chances of a random PU getting the Commonwealth back on track are really tanked.

That being said, CW is super OP in player hands because there are many aspects of the game that can be used as tools. Either electing a ton of local rulers and just riding out the bad legitimacy for loads of monarch points, or going foreign rulers with an eye of PUing other nations. But, pretty much any nation is OP in player hands.

 

[Tweakee]

I don't really see why people are so reluctant to westernize as Poland.
.

It's much easier and cheaper as any Eastern tech to just border and ally a Western nation for Western Arms Trade. At that point, the tech penalty becomes so minor that westernizing is pointless unless you're tiny.

 

[bbqftw]

muh trade companies though

 

[alqemist]

I think that Poland that creates the Commonwealth is OP. In my last several games......even playing WITHOUT lucky nations on it formed and by 1650 was an unstoppable monster....:

Not in my experience. Playing as Muscovy I typically ignore them until massive rebellions break out, which seems to happen almost every game. They seem kind of passive.

 

[Frungy78]

Poland has no serious enemies. They eat the Teutonic and Livonian orders, and maybe parts of Russia/Hungary. Nobody attacks them though. Austria doesn't ever. Ottomans rarely do, they usually never get past Wallachia and their 100% coring costs. Sweden rarely does. Muscovy might bite at Lithuania, but they never get good allies. PLC is most fragile at game start, when Lithuania has 0 humanism. DoW them and watch little Ruthenian bits blow up out of Lithuania.

Once they form PLC or Lithuania gets humanism, they are much more stable. Only way Poland really loses the PU is if they get negative prestige from losing vs Ottomans or some huge alliance.

 

[Arachne]

I don't really see why people are so reluctant to westernize as Poland.

Step 1 : take religious ideas.
Step 2 : westernize.

Rebels issue? DOW on anybody and your allies will clean the room.

Eastern tech has 60% cavalry ratio, and Poland has the best cavalry in the game, plus Western Arms Trade is easy for them so the tech penalty is paltry.

 

[Vivi_]

I don't criticize the choice, I was just pointing out that it's the easiest westernisation of the whole game.

To me, 50% cavalry ratio with military tech being always ahead, even from France, is way better. Better units + eastern cavalry = bye bye neighborhood.

 

[Arachne]

I don't criticize the choice, I was just pointing out that it's the easiest westernisation of the whole game.

To me, 50% cavalry ratio with military tech being always ahead, even from France, is way better. Better units + eastern cavalry = bye bye neighborhood.

It's easy enough to stay ahead as the Ottomans, with a heavier tech penalty, the occasional military idea group, and poor access to Western Arms Trade. Shouldn't be any harder for CW.

 

[Krajzen]

These are the screenshots of the current Commonwealth in my gameI am Austria)






The problem is that because it chooses Humanist National Ideas it is TOO stable. And then it has Combat Bonuses in Every area, Some of which like +33 Cavalry Combat are the best in the game.

That is why I think Commonwealth is OP.

How the hell could you allow on such powerful PLC to grow for 200 years without you, Austria, one of world's major powers and almost direct and definitely stronger neighbor from 1444 (with whole HRE to your potential help and many allies with diplo bonuses) managing to contain it?

 

[atwix]

commonwealth national traditions and their sheer size make them a powerhouse. However, they are still vulnerable to rebels. As a player, I'd try to make the last king of PLC MY dynasty around 1600, await the event chain that tumbles them down from elective into normal monarchy, and force PU them the day after; they will start (at first) with YOUR dynasty as king and a weak claim heir of local dynasty, which makes them sucsceptible to claim throne and force PU war. The austria game I saw on page 1 could easily have kept PLC in check as subject.

 

[birincikalite]

A lot of reports of AI Muscovy not doing too well since the last patch, It may need some sort of buff but what?

It's not about that, Muscovy fails to beat Commonwealth and its potential strong allies. Commonweath isn't OP but the game can't simulate well how PLC ended up getting shared between other powers after being a major power. PLC just starts as a major power and stays like this forever unless some great rebellion breaks it into pieces or Lithuania PU is lost by Poland who loses a war and has negative prestige.

 

[JagLover]

I don't get why people complain about historical major powers being major powers in game.

Quick reminder : it took several major powers to take it down in real life. Many times.
If PLC strenght bothers you that much, do the same thing in game.

Not forgot to mention, standing around 10 legitimacy while being a good target for a PU, is not an advantage. At all. Plus, rebels events, many neighbors, and better cavalry but worse infantry, making stacks weakers if they don't have enough time to recover infantry.

The criticism is whether it is more or less powerful than it was in history. Saying it took several major powers to take it down makes it sound like it was some sort of struggle whereas if I remember correctly it was just Russia rather reluctantly agreeing to partition what had become effectively a vassal state.

It is clearly overpowered in game not due to the base tax and manpower it could potentially control but because the game does not adequately model the high degree of decentralisation and weak central authority. I look in vain for rather weakly controlled vassals on the border with Russia, or the later Cossack controlled lands that eventually rose in revolt.

If historical events that actually occurred (such as Muscovy taking Smolensk in the early 1500s) cannot occur in game then there is something wrong with the game. The overpowering of PLC is the prime reason for a weaker Russia in game.

 

[moscal]

In my games PLC is is quickly partition. Most, however, Poland and Lithuania do not continue their union.

 

[Lot]

Then it was changed because it was in several patches. Poland certainly is.

Were you playing a historically lucky nation? The status is given to a random nation as the player can't have it.

 

[Violent AI]

I've played close to a 1000 hours since the day of launch (in and outside europe), and in my games, I've only seen commonwealth formed just once - 2 weeks ago. I've never played as Poland myself so the only reason I knew about the commonwealth forming was because of the forums. Ofcourse the PU forms almost every time, but mostly they are lagging in Mil tech early on due to the PU king being a 4/4/1 so they are not too difficult to take out.

 

[arctus]

These are the screenshots of the current Commonwealth in my gameI am Austria)






The problem is that because it chooses Humanist National Ideas it is TOO stable. And then it has Combat Bonuses in Every area, Some of which like +33 Cavalry Combat are the best in the game.

That is why I think Commonwealth is OP.

actually i think the humanist idea group should be nerved, it just has too many stronk ideas, revolt risk could be nerved to 1 reduction from 2 and culture acceptance nerved too from 50 %, which is way too stronk. the idea group just makes realms with lots of cultures to stable, when in case they should be historically unstable. i mean its just when you play ottomans you take humanist as first idea and win basically