Is the BJ-1 the only starter mech you can get in the campaign?

[Prussian Havoc]

There is a nice progression curve emerging for BattleMech acquisition in Cohh's game. Key appears to be building up a Warchest of Cbills for Mech piece purchase, and then checking the MechMarket at each world to make it just that much easier to complete Mech Chaisis, either for sale or for use.

 

[Kereminde]

There is a nice progression curve emerging for BattleMech acquisition in Cohh game.

It could be going better for him, but then that's on me to do. I certainly plan on that.

It'd be nice to have different ancestral BattleMechs based on your ancestry, since I plan on being from the FedSuns I'm gonna be using the Blackjack anyways though.

Oh let's take a look, then. There's not a lot of options and if we assume the starter has to be in a certain range, I'd go with these:

Draconis Combine: Panther PNT-9R or Jenner JR7-D
Free Worlds League: Hunchback HBK-4G (With AC/10 + JJs installed)
Federated Suns: Blackjack BJ-1
Lyran Commonwealth: Griffin GRF-1S
Capellan Confederation: Vindicator VND-1R
Magistracy of Canopus: Centurion CN9-A (With AC/5 + JJs installed)
Taurian Concordat: Enforcer ENF-4R
Rimward Periphery: Griffin GRF-1N
Deep Periphery: UrbanMech UM-R60

What we should see is, well, if the models were in:
Free Worlds League: Hermes II HER-2S
Magistracy of Canopus: Whitworth WTH-1
Rimward Periphery: Phoenix Hawk PHX-1

 

[Steel Warrior]

Im actually surprised we started with a medium at all. I was expecting the starter lance to be a shadow hawk and 3 lights.


BJ was a good choice. Cappable but lots of room to improve

 

[Prussian Havoc]

Im actually surprised we started with a medium at all. I was expecting the starter lance to be a shadow hawk and 3 lights.
BJ was a good choice. Cappable but lots of room to improve

Agreed. After destroying/salvaging some Striker and Scorpion Tanks, the Shadow Hawk and Blackjack would make excellent frames for some early Mechlab work.

Another consideration I'm looking at is pulling Jump Jets in favor of Max Torso Armor. With Angel of Death gone and Leg Repair/Replacement so expensive...

...hmm, I just don't know. But I'll be giving it some thought between now and the 24th. : )

 

[Gronk311]

They are not even close. A Centurion is a 50t 64 KPH Mech that has a heavy AC 10 with some other Weapons like a LRM5 and 2 Medium Laser. The Dragon is a prestigious (at least in the Kurita-area) 60t Heavy, 86 KPH fast with an AC5 (smaller), a LRM10 (bigger) and 2 Medium Lasers.

The real difference is the price and armor these Mechs have. A Centurion costs 3.5m Cbills, a Dragon over 5 Million, while a Black Jack is a fairly well armored Jump Jet equipped 45 Ton Mech, which costs only 3.1m CBills. This is a very big difference in Power Level between even the Centurion and the Blackjack, since he only has 2 AC2 and 4 Medium Lasers.

To put this into perspective, a Blackjack Alpha Strike (firing all Weapons) does 2x25 DMG with AC2s and 4x25 with Mediums (Total 150). A Centurion does 60 with the AC10, 50 with the 2 Mediums and additional 20 with LRMs. While that is only 130, you do a bigger damage on a single component with the AC10 which is very handy to destroy that instead spreading the damage everywhere.

A Dragon has a slightly bigger damage potential, since the AC damage isnt proportional (as the number indicates). A Dragon would be 45 for the AC5, 40 with the LRM and 50 with the Mediums (135 total). But is has SO MUCH MORE ARMOR and speed (10 tons compared to 8.5t of the BJ and CN9).

FYI, a stock Centurion has a weapon loadoutof an AC/10, LRM-10, 2xML
The Dragon has an AC/5, LRM-10, 2xML.

The speed and armor differences may be offset by the initiative system. If you are able to skip the initial tutorial mission I think the Dragon would fit nicely into the remainder of the coronation mission.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

There were two in the opening tutorial mission

Those were dummy shells, just using the urbie .

Agreed. After destroying/salvaging some Striker and Scorpion Tanks, the Shadow Hawk and Blackjack would make excellent frames for some early Mechlab work.

Another consideration I'm looking at is pulling Jump Jets in favor of Max Torso Armor. With Angel of Death gone and Leg Repair/Replacement so expensive...

...hmm, I just don't know. But I'll be giving it some thought between now and the 24th. : )

I'm kind of against pulling the jump jets. Not for DFA purposes (that seems an... uneconomic choice, both for self-damage and destroying sections (and weapons!) on the enemy you may not want to), but for ridge/hill hopping. Especially for a relatively slow, straight-fire mech like the BJ, you need to be able to hop to higher ground to get a good unobstructed line of fire on targets.
And to drop down behind ridgelines, because frankly enemies seem to really hate the player Blackjack.

The natural flow of terrain on a lot of maps (not to mention walls and things) often does sniper designs no favors, unless you can get up on perches to blaze away.

They are not even close. A Centurion is a 50t 64 KPH Mech that has a heavy AC 10 with some other Weapons like a LRM5 and 2 Medium Laser. The Dragon is a prestigious (at least in the Kurita-area) 60t Heavy, 86 KPH fast with an AC5 (smaller), a LRM10 (bigger) and 2 Medium Lasers.

Prestigious fluffwise, perhaps. Playerwise, I think the favor traditionally rests with the centurion.
For one, the LRMs are the same. The AC5 is a lot better in this game, and the edge in speed and armor is nice, but not particular decisive, especially given how weak those side torsos are, with ammo bins and the harsh nature of pilot injuries in this game.

 

[AncientRaig]

Really I think the only thing I'm going to end up changing is swapping the Urbie for a Locust in the game files (or trading it for a Locust if that's possible, I've been avoiding spoilers as much as possible because I want to start my first game as blind as possible). The Black Jack and Shadow Hawk have a pretty solid amount of punching power with the changes to autocannons from the tests I ran back during the meta, and the Commando can easily be modded to be a little less terrible. The Urbie is too slow for my tastes, but it's got a nice hole-puncher if you can actually get the thing in range. I'm assuming that the starter lance hasn't changed from 1 Urbie, 1 Commando, 1 Shadow Hawk, 1 Black Jack, yes?

Now, I'd love to see some options to choose from a small number of different mechs depending on where you and your starting mechwarriors come from. Having a handful of choices would be a nice way to make each run start a little different (and let you decide how much of a challenge you want to start with).

 

[rip4ever]

Really I think the only thing I'm going to end up changing is swapping the Urbie for a Locust in the game files (or trading it for a Locust if that's possible, I've been avoiding spoilers as much as possible because I want to start my first game as blind as possible). I'm assuming that the starter lance hasn't changed from 1 Urbie, 1 Commando, 1 Shadow Hawk, 1 Black Jack, yes?

Now, I'd love to see some options to choose from a small number of different mechs depending on where you and your starting mechwarriors come from. Having a handful of choices would be a nice way to make each run start a little different (and let you decide how much of a challenge you want to start with).

You start with BJ, ShadowHawk, Vindicator, Spider, and a Locust. Only being able to drop with 4 of the five. Typically this seems to works best early game swapping the lights in and out as they get damaged. Allowing you to drop with a light still under repair and/or a pilot in recovery.

 

[AncientRaig]

You start with BJ, ShadowHawk, Vindicator, Spider, and a Locust. Only being able to drop with 4 of the five. Typically this seems to works best early game swapping the lights in and out as they get damaged. Allowing you to drop with a light still under repair and/or a pilot in recovery.

Ah. Well, RIP Commando. TBH, outside of the Spider and Locust that lance seems kinda powerful for a starter setup.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

You start with BJ, ShadowHawk, Vindicator, Spider, and a Locust. Only being able to drop with 4 of the five. Typically this seems to works best early game swapping the lights in and out as they get damaged. Allowing you to drop with a light still under repair and/or a pilot in recovery.

Yeah, this. And the spare is pretty necessary as there is enough ordnance flying around that sometimes the light just loses a side, and you've suddenly got 72,000 in repairs to deal with.

Ah. Well, RIP Commando. TBH, outside of the Spider and Locust that lance seems kinda powerful for a starter setup.

It has some problems. The lack of missile weight gives it some challenges, and it leans hard on long range- the blackjack is actually the most effective mech at short range in the group by significant margin, but can't cope with the heat output for very long.

Having the shadowhawk move in and punch things is often very necessary, because a lot of the opposition wants to slug it out at pistol range.

That said, if you want to go fishing for a commando, it shouldn't take long.

 

[Steel Warrior]

I think the dragon is going to be a beast in this game and its likely going to be my personal ride

Buffed ac5 (or ppc if grand dragon hard points are a thing), lrm10 for stability dmg and mediums as backup. Probably get a solid 3 stacks of evasion every move and a tough hitting melee attack. Yumm yumm. In a game where they claim firepower isnt everything for every mission i see alot of potential.

 

[Kereminde]

Ah. Well, RIP Commando. TBH, outside of the Spider and Locust that lance seems kinda powerful for a starter setup.

Well, that Spider in the hands of Bombadil was pretty dangerous towards vehicles . . . buildings . . . the back or exposed sides of 'Mechs . . .

 

[Exemplar Voss]

I think the dragon is going to be a beast in this game and its likely going to be my personal ride

Buffed ac5 (or ppc if grand dragon hard points are a thing), lrm10 for stability dmg and mediums as backup. Probably get a solid 3 stacks of evasion every move and a tough hitting melee attack. Yumm yumm. In a game where they claim firepower isnt everything for every mission i see alot of potential.

PPC is easy to drop in the dragon, just not in the right arm. You can replace either medium laser with one- but you'll need to add several heat sinks as well, since the base 10 engine heat sinks don't soak a single PPC's heat in this game.

 

[AncientRaig]

Yeah, this. And the spare is pretty necessary as there is enough ordnance flying around that sometimes the light just loses a side, and you've suddenly got 72,000 in repairs to deal with.


It has some problems. The lack of missile weight gives it some challenges, and it leans hard on long range- the blackjack is actually the most effective mech at short range in the group by significant margin, but can't cope with the heat output for very long.

Having the shadowhawk move in and punch things is often very necessary, because a lot of the opposition wants to slug it out at pistol range.

That said, if you want to go fishing for a commando, it shouldn't take long.

Mind you everything I say is coming from my experience at the end of the MP Beta, so if changes have been made I don't know about them. The min range on the ACs hurts a bit, but with AC2 and AC5 damage buffed up it's not a huge thing. The lack of big swarms of missiles is a consideration, but not necessarily as big of a problem as you make it sound, and the mechs have the mobility to keep range between JJs and decent movement speeds. If you can get your hands on an SRM6 or an LRM10 you can pretty easily spec the Shadow Hawk towards being an LRM boat, or solid close range brawler. Either way, as long as you're fighting Combat Vees and other light/medium lances, the starter setup doesn't really encourage upgrading in any way. Add in a Centurion or a Hunchback to get a bit more up close power, but BJ-1, SHD-2H, VND-1R, and either SDR-5V or LCT-1V is a solid medium lance comp.

Well, that Spider in the hands of Bombadil was pretty dangerous towards vehicles . . . buildings . . . the back or exposed sides of 'Mechs . . .

2 ML is still 2 ML. Lasers and punches still hurt bad. Still, the Spider isn't the mech you think of first when you think "Powerful light mech". Or second. Or third.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...I'm kind of against pulling the jump jets. Not for DFA purposes (that seems an... uneconomic choice, both for self-damage and destroying sections (and weapons!) on the enemy you may not want to), but for ridge/hill hopping. Especially for a relatively slow, straight-fire mech like the BJ, you need to be able to hop to higher ground to get a good unobstructed line of fire on targets.
And to drop down behind ridgelines, because frankly enemies seem to really hate the player Blackjack.

The natural flow of terrain on a lot of maps (not to mention walls and things) often does sniper designs no favors, unless you can get up on perches to blaze away...

Much depends on an ability to pull together a non-Jumper Scheme of Maneuver and whether the added Armor and eventually the Bulwark Ability will make all this payoff sufficiently or not. It'll be fun testing it out... in another 24 Days. : )

 

[Kereminde]

2 ML is still 2 ML. Lasers and punches still hurt bad. Still, the Spider isn't the mech you think of first when you think "Powerful light mech". Or second. Or third.

This is true. However, I've watched enough of these missions to have an appreciation for having a scout and spotter who is really hard to tag, and mobile enough to jump out of trouble. Not having ammo which can go up is also a big plus, as opposed to practically all the Locust variants. Going in loaded just for combat is fine, but . . . I've seen at least two missions I really would prefer response speed and flanking capability over punch.

(. . . I make a terrible Lyran.)

 

[godmonkey]

(. . . I make a terrible Lyran.)

that's okay brother as i make a terrible person

 

[Fiddlersitch]

They are not even close. A Centurion is a 50t 64 KPH Mech that has a heavy AC 10 with some other Weapons like a LRM5 and 2 Medium Laser. The Dragon is a prestigious (at least in the Kurita-area) 60t Heavy, 86 KPH fast with an AC5 (smaller), a LRM10 (bigger) and 2 Medium Lasers.

The real difference is the price and armor these Mechs have. A Centurion costs 3.5m Cbills, a Dragon over 5 Million, while a Black Jack is a fairly well armored Jump Jet equipped 45 Ton Mech, which costs only 3.1m CBills. This is a very big difference in Power Level between even the Centurion and the Blackjack, since he only has 2 AC2 and 4 Medium Lasers.

To put this into perspective, a Blackjack Alpha Strike (firing all Weapons) does 2x25 DMG with AC2s and 4x25 with Mediums (Total 150). A Centurion does 60 with the AC10, 50 with the 2 Mediums and additional 20 with LRMs. While that is only 130, you do a bigger damage on a single component with the AC10 which is very handy to destroy that instead spreading the damage everywhere.

A Dragon has a slightly bigger damage potential, since the AC damage isnt proportional (as the number indicates). A Dragon would be 45 for the AC5, 40 with the LRM and 50 with the Mediums (135 total). But is has SO MUCH MORE ARMOR and speed (10 tons compared to 8.5t of the BJ and CN9).

Centurion has lrm 10 dude

 

[Schutt]

It is extremly easy to modify a text file to change the starting setup, but part of the mission fun is that you try to salvage the mechs you want to get a nicer lance, if you take away that part of the game it really looses a lot imho.

 

[KhazadDhum]

Yup, you could put in an atlas for the starter mech, but would you really want to? In the early game, you're going to be missing a lot of shots since the pilots aren't going to be very accurate. Then repairs are going to cost you more than you're going to make on any of the early missions. You're going to go broke fast that way. I'd be tempted to put in a T-bolt as the starter mech, but that would make it all too easy in the early game, as I'd probably take a lot less internal damage, and be able to more quickly finish off the opfor. But again that feels like cheating (which it basically is), and I'd rather be forced to learn the hard way to better my tactical game so later on I'm a tactical genius on the level of Mitch. ....no wait, I'd rather actually win some missions now and again. A tactical genius on the level of Eck.