Is the 300 gold ransom intentional?

[SonnyA]

Once you unlock Golden Obligations in the left tree in Stewardship, suddenly all the prisoners get a max ransom sum of 300. This makes it extremely easy to amass large amounts of gold. Especially since you get so many un-tyrannical imprisonment options. I often have 100+ prisoners.

Is that 300 gold cap intentional? It isn't described anywhere.

 

[Riamus]

There are multiple topics about this and it happens for everyone. It isn't clear if it's intentional, though I don't really think it is because you'll get the same amount for an unlanded wanderer as a king.

 

[fleetothemoon]

According to the game files, Golden Obligation increases the ransom value by either 90 gold or sets it to the amount you would get for demanding payment from hooks, which is 6x your monthly gross income - whichever is higher. I'm guessing your monthly income is about 50, before expenditure, hence why you can get 300 gold from ransoms.

I doubt this is intended, since it makes Golden Obligation way more powerful than it should be, for a first perk. I'm guessing that the devs may have originally experimented with Golden Obligation increasing the amount of money you get from ransoms, but changed this later on, but forgot to remove it from the script.

 

[SonnyA]

According to the game files, Golden Obligation increases the ransom value by either 90 gold or sets it to the amount you would get for demanding payment from hooks, which is 6x your monthly gross income - whichever is higher. I'm guessing your monthly income is about 50, before expenditure, hence why you can get 300 gold from ransoms.

I doubt this is intended, since it makes Golden Obligation way more powerful than it should be, for a first perk. I'm guessing that the devs may have originally experimented with Golden Obligation increasing the amount of money you get from ransoms, but changed this later on, but forgot to remove it from the script.

I do have over 50, yes (and around 15 too many vassals which lowers it quite a lot).

Also, I tried to see if there were any other threads on this, but I couldn't find any. Looked at the first 5-6 pages and used the search function. Oh well.

Guess it's a known issue so hopefully a fix is coming soon.

 

[Riamus]

I do have over 50, yes (and around 15 too many vassals which lowers it quite a lot).

View attachment 631900

Also, I tried to see if there were any other threads on this, but I couldn't find any. Looked at the first 5-6 pages and used the search function. Oh well.

Guess it's a known issue so hopefully a fix is coming soon.

Yeah, there are many posts a day, so stuff tends to disappear unless people really want to talk about it. It's easier to use Search than to browse to find something.

I don't think it's related to your income because every post I've seen all say 300 gold. Not a mix of things like 200, 250, 300. Maybe it's supposed to be, but it appears to be a hard 300 for everyone with that perk.

 

[fleetothemoon]

I don't think it's related to your income because every post I've seen all say 300 gold. Not a mix of things like 200, 250, 300. Maybe it's supposed to be, but it appears to be a hard 300 for everyone with that perk.

It is related to your income, but it is capped at 300 gold. So once you have 50 gold or more monthly income, it hits the cap.

The reason for this cap is because demand payment for hook is capped at 300 gold, since it uses the dynamic gold amount of 'medium_gold'.

See here from 01_dynamic_values.txt:

#Dynamic gold stuff
tiny_gold_min_value = 5
tiny_gold_max_value = 50
minor_gold_min_value = 15
minor_gold_max_value = 150
medium_gold_min_value = 50
medium_gold_max_value = 300
major_gold_min_value = 75
major_gold_max_value = 500
massive_gold_min_value = 100
massive_gold_max_value = 750
monumental_gold_min_value = 200
monumental_gold_max_value = 1500

tiny_income_multiplier_value = 1.2
minor_income_multiplier_value = 3
medium_income_multiplier_value = 6
major_income_multiplier_value = 12
massive_income_multiplier_value = 18
monumental_income_multiplier_value = 36

 

[Vanhal]

I actually had full amount of it paid maybe once or twice. AI is completely broke all the time. Also, no, i don't think it is too big when Hajj costs like 750 gold and usually over 1000 if we cost payments enroute.

 

[Tatterhood]

According to the game files, Golden Obligation increases the ransom value by either 90 gold or sets it to the amount you would get for demanding payment from hooks, which is 6x your monthly gross income - whichever is higher. I'm guessing your monthly income is about 50, before expenditure, hence why you can get 300 gold from ransoms.

I doubt this is intended, since it makes Golden Obligation way more powerful than it should be, for a first perk. I'm guessing that the devs may have originally experimented with Golden Obligation increasing the amount of money you get from ransoms, but changed this later on, but forgot to remove it from the script.

If the ransom amount were less than what you get for a hook, you could just ask for a favour instead of money and then immediately use the favour hook to demand money. My guess would be that it wasn't meant to increase ransom money, but someone noticed this exploit and they decided to just raise the ransom to match rather than artificially prevent doing this.

 

[Keinwyn]

Personally, I think it is fine the way it is, but needs to be moved to be the penultimate perk in the tree.
Move Extort Subjects to the first perk slot - it is still worth dipping into Avarice for, but not the all-powerful perk you consider completing a tree to access.

 

[Beyond Disbelief]

I just experienced this yesterday as well, and thought through this.

I think the "ransom" portion is fine; essentially it's skipping the part where you demand a hook then later use that same hook to Demand Payment.

So "upgrading your ransom amount" to "equal to how much you can demand payment", this part of the logic I think is WAD and perfectly fine.


The contentious part should be whether or not Demand Payment should operate on 6x your own income or 6x of the target's income.

I don't see an issue with "300" as a number, but I think it's probably intended to be be 6x of *target* income.


If I were to revise this, though, I would update it to the highest of:
- 6x of target's income (capped at their wealth)
- 30% of the target's wealth
- 50 gold

Doing it this way it can capture all situations
- Rando courtier/baron with 1200 gold? hell I'm taking 400 of that! But with the 30% rule it also saves the game from being too frustrating if used agaisnt a player.
- Any rando courtier with 30-50 gold somehow? 50.
- A king with monthly income of 30? You owe me 180.

The only problem would be using this on the pope, that probably ends up being 10-20k at the end game.

 

[Chlodio]

I don't get why they are hell-bent on making the ransom fixed instead adjustable with a slider.

Side note, I also dislike how captured ruler and their heirs will be automatically released once the war ends, stripping me of their ransom. Peace didn't mean an automatic release, ransom still hat to be paid, for example, John II of France could only pay a third of his ransom, he at the peace treaty he had his son stay a hostage in his place until the ransom was to be paid in full.

 

[Dominico]

I personally don't see this as a problem as most characters can't afford the full ransom anyway in my experience. Are you getting 300 from everyone?

 

[grommile]

I also dislike how captured ruler and their heirs will be automatically released once the war ends

i'm guessing one of the premises is "everyone else at war with them deserves a crack at capturing them".

(besides, a lot of the time you'd only be getting a weak hook as ransom unless you wanted to sit on them for years, since frequently the AI will have gone broke during the war...)

 

[Talamare]

It is related to your income, but it is capped at 300 gold. So once you have 50 gold or more monthly income, it hits the cap.

The reason for this cap is because demand payment for hook is capped at 300 gold, since it uses the dynamic gold amount of 'medium_gold'.

See here from 01_dynamic_values.txt:

These values could all literally be reduced to 1/3rd and still be significant

 

[Voy]

I don't get why they are hell-bent on making the ransom fixed instead adjustable with a slider.

Side note, I also dislike how captured ruler and their heirs will be automatically released once the war ends, stripping me of their ransom. Peace didn't mean an automatic release, ransom still hat to be paid, for example, John II of France could only pay a third of his ransom, he at the peace treaty he had his son stay a hostage in his place until the ransom was to be paid in full.

Well, then you could just break the peace treaty and go to war again and insta-win as many times as you'd like until you got all of their territories.

 

[Silens]

Side note, I also dislike how captured ruler and their heirs will be automatically released once the war ends, stripping me of their ransom. Peace didn't mean an automatic release, ransom still hat to be paid, for example, John II of France could only pay a third of his ransom, he at the peace treaty he had his son stay a hostage in his place until the ransom was to be paid in full.

Because kings and heirs count towards war score. You can ransom them (if they have the money), but depending on your situation your war score might drop severely once they leave your prison. Releasing them is part of gaining an early peace.

Insta-lose is already punishing enough, combining it with 300g ransom would be overkill.

 

[Fulbert]

John II of France could only pay a third of his ransom, he at the peace treaty he had his son stay a hostage in his place until the ransom was to be paid in full.

Something like that happened to me during my first Noob Island run, actually. I joined my Welsh in-law's defensive war against Mercia and got defeated in battle, my ruler and his heir son captured. The war soon ended and we lost but my ruler stayed imprisoned — looked like my dear in-law didn't deem it necessary to negotiate his allies' release in the peace talks.
I only had the money to bail out my ruler but not his son so he had to stay locked up for several years as we scraped together enough money for ransom.

The moral of the story? Enemy's POWs are good for the warscore and his allies' for profit, I guess.

 

[Chlodio]

Well, then you could just break the peace treaty and go to war again and insta-win as many times as you'd like until you got all of their territories.

No, you can't... Have you played this game? You can already kidnap a ruler during peace, but keeping him as a prisoner blocks you from declaring wars on him.

 

[Chlodio]

Because kings and heirs count towards war score. You can ransom them (if they have the money), but depending on your situation your war score might drop severely once they leave your prison. Releasing them is part of gaining an early peace.

What of the situation where I already have 100% wars core from occupation and battles, or I would prefer get my war score that way, but I can't ransom them because they can't afford it, but the game doesn't even allow me to wait for it, because of 100% war score auto-enforces peace. In many situations, their ransom is worth more than the actual war goal?

Insta-lose is already punishing enough, combining it with 300g ransom would be overkill.

Off with your hyperbole, 300 gold is only for the emperors, to which 300 gold is nothing. So, it isn't overkill.

 

[Silens]

What of the situation where I already have 100% wars core from occupation and battles, or I would prefer get my war score that way, but I can't ransom them because they can't afford it, but the game doesn't even allow me to wait for it, because of 100% war score auto-enforces peace. In many situations, their ransom is worth more than the actual war goal?


Off with your hyperbole, 300 gold is only for the emperors, to which 300 gold is nothing. So, it isn't overkill.

It doesn't auto-enforce anything, only if you wait for too long. In fact you can't even propose peace while a ransom offer is considered. But when they can't pay the ransom anyway, what do you suggest? Peace while holding their ruler/heir indefinitely?

And I wouldn't say that 300g is nothing for an emperor. In most cases that's all they have. You can disagree with me all you want, doesn't make it truer.