Is Sealion possible in TRP?

[Shai]

Admittedly, I've only tried it once,but, failed miserably. First, my initial idea of launching from Caen area went out the window when I found I couldn't get ships through the Channel waters. I'd have had to sail around England.

So, I landed in Dover with 3 Marines and one Inf and a HQ. Added three more Inf and two paras as soon as possible and my 8 transports were now all tied up. Meh~!

The Brits kept reinforcing with more and more troops while the typical TRP grind/battle wore mine down. Is it actually possible to successfully amphibious attack into coastal forts there? My experience said NO! I added in what Tacs I had that were not shredded from the battle for France. They helped a little but were worn down quickly. My own navy added bombardment and the Brits navy NEVER showed at all. After the initial good odds it went downhill as more Brits got into Dover to defend.

So, any advice on how to conduct Sealion? Btw, I had the research for 5 in amph attacks. Hmm, Were the 2 paras and 3 Inf I added later over the command max?

 

[unmerged(86600)]

It worked for me when I launched some 6 paras and also landed from the about 7 divisions equipped with engineers and artillery in Central England, effectively splitting the guys in half.

Of course, by the time I launched Seelowe (may 1943), they were already starving to death and clinging to the coastlines of South Africa and Southern India. Also, their navy had been mostly blown to pieces or forced into port by my large collection of naval and strategic bombers. So, if you try it in the summer of 1940, you might find them a bit more resillient.

 

[Minodrin]

Well, you could attack more than one place. Add shore bombardment and possibly air-cover on that, and you might be able to pull it off.

 

[Shai]

I took Dover, but, at what cost?

I tried Minodrin's idea with a diversionary assault by 2 Mnt, 1 Inf at Sheffield. The initial British 3 units swelled to 9 and, happily, drew off the armor unit that was sitting in London. That's when (June 20, 1940) I threw 3 Marines, 1Mnt, I HQ, and 3 paras at Dover. I pulled the diversionary forces off the beach and brought them back to France and reloaded fresh troops which joined those at Dover.

My odds started in the low 80's against 3 British inf defenders. I also added in 6 Tacs and 7 Cas (at 100% strength) from the nearest French airfields. I had 10 fighters flying cap over the area and they were very successful. Only one group was intercepted and they weren't hurt too badly. Not by the Brit fighters, that is. In a lot less than a week I had to call off the bombers because I'd lost well over 50% of them, basically, to flak!

Eventually, I got 3 Cas and 3 Tacs above 50% and sent them in again. They got just that one additional attack, then they were out of action again. One Cas survivor got away with only 7 planes left.

Anyway, after 18 days Dover (defended eventually by 9 units) fell to the 11 units I'd built up there (surprise!) and I'm reinforcing as fast as possible. Once again, the British fleet has failed to show, at all, while my meager navy pounded their defenses. I've taken Bristol and am driving quickly on the sole unit in Bristol and have a few Brits cut off in Portsmouth.

I learned a few things.
One, get Marines! Mine are gifts from the German spying efforts in England, from whom I got both of the first two blueprints for Marines. These guys are really tough.

Two- second best are mountain troops, also as up-to-date as they can be, so far. At a distant third is regular infantry. I added some after the initial landings and they were on their last breath when Dover fell. The mountain troops were about at 50%, but, the Marines were still around 75% in org! The Paras, too, were around 75% org.

Three- Despite the terrible losses they took, I think the assault would have failed without the air attacks. The very first round of attacks at Dover drove my odds up about 5%, even though they pretty much insisted upon attacking the Brit reinforcements coming from Norwich thereafter.

Four- Where the heck is the British fleet? There's been only ONE attempt to stop me and that from a single Canadian destroyer! I think I'd be in a lot of trouble if they'd contested. Maybe my planes would have hurt them, but, my fleet should be dead or hiding in Rotterdam.

Five- It seems the British get Home Guard units that just popped up in Dover while I was assaulting. There were 3 Garrisons in the 9 defending units and they were not there to begin with. The rest are presently retreating over the river into London. Too bad I can't send the Luftwaffe after them!

Anyway, I have my answer. Thanks for the advice, fellas!

 

[lwarmonger]

I took Dover, but, at what cost?

I tried Minodrin's idea with a diversionary assault by 2 Mnt, 1 Inf at Sheffield. The initial British 3 units swelled to 9 and, happily, drew off the armor unit that was sitting in London. That's when (June 20, 1940) I threw 3 Marines, 1Mnt, I HQ, and 3 paras at Dover. I pulled the diversionary forces off the beach and brought them back to France and reloaded fresh troops which joined those at Dover.

My odds started in the low 80's against 3 British inf defenders. I also added in 6 Tacs and 7 Cas (at 100% strength) from the nearest French airfields. I had 10 fighters flying cap over the area and they were very successful. Only one group was intercepted and they weren't hurt too badly. Not by the Brit fighters, that is. In a lot less than a week I had to call off the bombers because I'd lost well over 50% of them, basically, to flak!

Eventually, I got 3 Cas and 3 Tacs above 50% and sent them in again. They got just that one additional attack, then they were out of action again. One Cas survivor got away with only 7 planes left.

Anyway, after 18 days Dover (defended eventually by 9 units) fell to the 11 units I'd built up there (surprise!) and I'm reinforcing as fast as possible. Once again, the British fleet has failed to show, at all, while my meager navy pounded their defenses. I've taken Bristol and am driving quickly on the sole unit in Bristol and have a few Brits cut off in Portsmouth.

I learned a few things.
One, get Marines! Mine are gifts from the German spying efforts in England, from whom I got both of the first two blueprints for Marines. These guys are really tough.

Two- second best are mountain troops, also as up-to-date as they can be, so far. At a distant third is regular infantry. I added some after the initial landings and they were on their last breath when Dover fell. The mountain troops were about at 50%, but, the Marines were still around 75% in org! The Paras, too, were around 75% org.

Three- Despite the terrible losses they took, I think the assault would have failed without the air attacks. The very first round of attacks at Dover drove my odds up about 5%, even though they pretty much insisted upon attacking the Brit reinforcements coming from Norwich thereafter.

Four- Where the heck is the British fleet? There's been only ONE attempt to stop me and that from a single Canadian destroyer! I think I'd be in a lot of trouble if they'd contested. Maybe my planes would have hurt them, but, my fleet should be dead or hiding in Rotterdam.

Five- It seems the British get Home Guard units that just popped up in Dover while I was assaulting. There were 3 Garrisons in the 9 defending units and they were not there to begin with. The rest are presently retreating over the river into London. Too bad I can't send the Luftwaffe after them!

Anyway, I have my answer. Thanks for the advice, fellas!

You will also want a huge air force. I build all IC, until fairly late, only have around 150 divisions, but have a huge force of TAC's, CAS, and NAV's, along with some fighters to attain air superiority over the battlefield. Only employ your airforce where you are trying to break through though, otherwise it will be depleted and weak when you really need it.

Also, don't forget to hit the Suez Canal immediately after you have taken Britain. That will trigger the New Order in the West events, which will get you peace with the USA. You will need that peace to build up for your Atomic war against America/Russia.

 

[Shai]

Monger- I never get much farther than this so that 'New World Order' is news to me. I almost want to go back to when I started Sealion and NOT do it because there's no way the British navy would have done so complete a fade. They must be in the Med and India and that's plainly woeful.

Meanwhile, my ally, the Italians, have gotten us into war with Greece so I DOW'ed the Yugos, too. With all the Balkan allies involved, it should not be difficult, right? I'm wondering, though, do Hungary and Bulgaria still do the 'Backstab' on Romania later? If so, do they drop from the alliance and take their loaned troops back? Would I not then be at war with them? That would be awkward!

I allied with Romania after Poland fell, hoping that would forestall the Russian demands on them. No joy.

Bulgaria joined, despite low odds, after only two offers. Now, they've lent me troops and what a slovenly bunch they are! 1918 level!

Italy accepted after Vichy. Hungary came just now after the Italians DOW'ed Greece. Guess that's the trigger? Their troops are not numerous, but, at least they are 1939 types.

I'll be letting my allies run their own armies. I'll use the loaners and see how well my allies cooperate on their own. My puppets, Slovakia and Denmark, I take control of. After all, they ARE just my puppets.

Your plan for IC building, do you only start producing troops in 1938? How do you get enough HQ's without starting earlier? Or, enough planes, for that matter?

Anyway, thanks for the advice and suggestions!

 

[lwarmonger]

Monger- I never get much farther than this so that 'New World Order' is news to me. I almost want to go back to when I started Sealion and NOT do it because there's no way the British navy would have done so complete a fade. They must be in the Med and India and that's plainly woeful.

By the time you start Operation Sea Lion, you generally want four NAV groups (four or five NAV's per group) to have been hunting British surface units since you started the war. I generally don't reinforce Africa until after Britain falls, but you will want to take military control of your Italian ally. Lose a little bit of Italian Africa in order to trigger the "AfrikaCorps" event... those four divisions will really help when it comes to securing the Suez Canal. After Britain has been siezed, you will want to use your marines and Paratroopers to take the British positions in the Middle East, which (in addition to the conquest of Britain) will trigger the New Order in the West events. That will really lighten your TC load, and puppet most of that territory that you have conquered. Both France and Britain will become your puppets. At that point I usually start building IC again, in order to get to about four fifths of the American base IC before the war between us restarts (the United States will be building up all this time, but you can stand on the strategic defensive while you build up your own navy and advanced NAV's... meet America on your terms in your waters).

Meanwhile, my ally, the Italians, have gotten us into war with Greece so I DOW'ed the Yugos, too. With all the Balkan allies involved, it should not be difficult, right? I'm wondering, though, do Hungary and Bulgaria still do the 'Backstab' on Romania later? If so, do they drop from the alliance and take their loaned troops back? Would I not then be at war with them? That would be awkward!

I allied with Romania after Poland fell, hoping that would forestall the Russian demands on them. No joy.

Bulgaria joined, despite low odds, after only two offers. Now, they've lent me troops and what a slovenly bunch they are! 1918 level!

Italy accepted after Vichy. Hungary came just now after the Italians DOW'ed Greece. Guess that's the trigger? Their troops are not numerous, but, at least they are 1939 types.

Your allies are best for providing cheap infantry to wall off the flanks (much like at Stalingrad), manning coastlines (in conjunction with German troops) and occupation duty. Use your Germans as the core of your army (Armor and Motorized, plus specialist and Mechanized troops as they become available). I usually trade for oil and rares from South America (Venezuala for oil and Peru for rares are the best... but there are others) so that by the time war comes along I've got plenty of raw materials (there simply aren't enough rares in Europe for you to make it without stockpiling from somewhere else). Ally everything you can, and maximize the numbers of puppets you get from the New Order events (you will need that infantry that is reinforced by non-German manpower).

Your plan for IC building, do you only start producing troops in 1938? How do you get enough HQ's without starting earlier? Or, enough planes, for that matter?

Anyway, thanks for the advice and suggestions!

At the very beginning of 1938 is when I stop producing factories. Meaning that I cease any new construction on factories in 1938 and wait for my existing builds to finish (sometimes I will go until mid-38). However given how much larger your industrial capacity is by then, it is relatively simple to create a minimum force necessary for your short term objectives. Your long term objectives will be made easier because you have so much industry. I also never waste any resources updating my forces until I've got the tech I'm going to use to start the war with (1939 infantry and armored divisions). I also go free market (because resources will be hard to come by) and professional army (because upgrading troops takes too long without it).

Your existing infantry (and allied infantry) and a total of 9 armored plus three motorized divisions is more than sufficient to complete the conquest of Poland. You also only need 2-3 headquarters to spearhead your offensives(which you should have... and you should have a total of 5 panzer divisions already from existing troops or Czech units that you acquired). Given your increased IC (and more efficient from being mostly Free Market) this shouldn't be too hard to do, plus the acquisition of some interceptor squadrons. After Poland is gone, then you build your TAC's, CAS, and Fighters (devote everything that isn't producing supplies or reinforcements to building your air force and special forces units... I also generally like to have another few armored corp for the conquest of France with one armored corp being two panzer and one motorized divisions).

In the meantime you should take the Nordic nations with your specialized units in addition to the airforce (as it is constructed). Conquer France in 1940, using all of your armor and airpower at one point to generate one or two battles of encirclement (in my most recent game they attacked into the Ruhr when I invaded Poland... however that only resulted in 18 divisions, including 2 of their three armored divisions, being cut off and destroyed inside of Germany, plus a toe hold was established in the Maginot line), after which you should be able to finish off France quite nicely.

The idea is that up until the battle of Britain, you are creating your forces using a kind of "just in time" production... with the idea being to maximize your IC from early factory builds. For Poland you need to upgrade and construct a mechanized army, so you make sure that by August 30th you've got just enough up to date troops to successfully conquer Poland and hold off France. For Scandinavia and France you need an airforce, so you make sure that you focus your building on that while filling out the rest of your forces (marines, paratroopers, alpine troops, a few more mechanized formations)... this should give you just enough of an airforce and army to beat France. After the battle of France however, you will definitely have over 300 base IC, and if you are free market that will tell even further. At that point you build to take down Britain (Paratroopers into an undefended province, then they can assist 1 or two amphibious assaults on neighboring provinces which should give you your foothold... DON'T FORGET TO TAKE DUBLIN after your done using your paratroopers in England!!!), and after that it is back to building IC again.

To be quite honest, I find that beating Britain and winning in the West is far easier than turning East after the fall of France. American and British strategic bombing is a bastard to fight off, and in fighting the Soviet Union your manpower will be bled dry very quickly (even without a whole lot of infantry). Even if you are only fighting in Africa and the Soviet Union, the air and naval war that you will have to wage with the West is almost like having a second front, and after a while you will start to run short of rares and oil (and the Soviet Union really doesn't have enough to make up your long term shortfalls in this regard). The Soviet Union is a manpower heavy conquest, and it leaves a belligerent United States at your back (not a good thing to have). Britain is an industrial heavy conquest (airforce and Navy), where you can focus on one front and play to your strengths. I generally don't try to fight the United States or Soviet Union until I have nukes, because they are far more likely to both jump on Germany than they are to fight one another (I also tend to load as the United States and Russia in order to do a little bit of build editing... because the AI won't build reactors and a nuclear war isn't as much fun if only one side has nukes).

 

[unmerged(62478)]

I have very easily completed sealion. I played as USSR 1943. I have already defeated the Reich. I lunched 8 para on the enemy province over the English channel. Right after the occupation, I have sent another 12 divs per sea transport to the occupied province. A month later the island was mine. To cover the transports I have send 100% of my fleet and the one that my puppets had (Mostly pre ww1 fleet at least mine :rofl: and other ships mostly DDs from Italy). I have assigned all mine aircraft to the area, for naval bombardment. After the invasion was a success, I could fell the wrath of the whole royal navy, since they engaged my fleet in the channel. I have lost my whole fleet- excluding 2 submarines (4 SHBS were the only greater loss since they were the only ships up to date). I have sunk 3 UK carriers and numerous lesser ships during the battle. Well a good story to tell, right?