Is religious conversion too fast?

[Calanon]

Is it me, or does religious conversion happen too fast? Hungary pretty much instantly converts Transylvania to Catholicism and Venice and Genoa instantly convert their colonies to Catholicism too. Do these places need tolerance of heretics? Some other way to slow down conversion?

 

[makaramus]

Is it me, or does religious conversion happen too fast? Hungary pretty much instantly converts Transylvania to Catholicism and Venice and Genoa instantly convert their colonies to Catholicism too. Do these places need tolerance of heretics? Some other way to slow down conversion?

do they have religius idea? this might be reason because in my games both nations having trouble at converting

 

[Calanon]

do they have religius idea? this might be reason because in my games both nations having trouble at converting

No, they keep doing it within the first 10 years or so, it seems a bit ridiculous to me.

 

[Viktor Vaughn]

That always confuses me as well, but it's possible with the theologian advisor to get the advancement of religion act (+1% missionary strength), and then get an inquisitor advisor (2%). Each point of positive stability is 0.5%, and if they accept the cultures that the Orthodox provinces are in, that gets rid of the -2% for non-accepted cultures.
Still seems pretty crazy to me (mainly because no way would I do that so quickly), but it's certainly possible.

 

[SKOTy]

Bare the fact that Catholics get multiple decisions that boost missionary strength, but in the first 10 years you get just one. Also provinces held by extremely loyal (loyalty 60+) get +2% local missionary strength.
Combine this with cardinal minister event which provides +1% missionary strength and you're converting almost everything within 2 years as soon as the game starts.

As long as there's One faith achievement religious conversion for at least some religions have to be fast so there's easy way how to do it.

 

[creativitypersonified]

Bare the fact that Catholics get multiple decisions that boost missionary strength, but in the first 10 years you get just one. Also provinces held by extremely loyal (loyalty 60+) get +2% local missionary strength.
Combine this with cardinal minister event which provides +1% missionary strength and you're converting almost everything within 2 years as soon as the game starts.

As long as there's One faith achievement religious conversion for at least some religions have to be fast so there's easy way how to do it.

There is always rebels

 

[Metroidkirby]

There is always rebels

But you can't use rebels to convert to your own religion.

 

[makaramus]

But you can't use rebels to convert to your own religion.

I doubt he mean it
there is another strategy
1)conquer %99.9 of the world
2)Start rebellion of most dominant religion that is not your state religion in your land
3)Dow to opm you let it survive
4)wait until rebels occupy entire kingdom and convert it
5)accep demands

 

[hitchens]

Personally I dont think so. I'd hate to see religious conversion becomes as slow and sluggish as culture conversion.

 

[makaramus]

Personally I dont think so. I'd hate to see religious conversion becomes as slow and sluggish as culture conversion.

actually just after enlightment you can culture swap entire world

 

[Zander]

It's generally either too fast or too slow, because of the way %/month works. I have long felt that Orthodox in particular needs a -2 to be converted, though: most of the Orthodox areas in game remained so even when occupied by other religions for generations.

 

[Rikissa]

actually just after enlightment you can culture swap entire world

Florry tried and failed, I'm not sure where the idea that One Culture is easy nowadays comes from

It's less difficult if you play a horde but even as a horde it's iffy

 

[hitchens]

It's generally either too fast or too slow, because of the way %/month works

That system is flawed, and should be scrapped. Here's a random idea:

In order to convert lets say Czech culture, you have to own all czech cores, and then pay a price of mana+gold and get instant convert. There are so many things in this game thats mana+click of a button so there really is no arguments against it. If you can instantly suppress rebellions or reduce inflation, then you should also change culture.

 

[Frencho]

Yes religious conversion is ahistorical due to how fast it happens.

Most Orthodox provinces remained orthodox during EU IV's period, Shia provinces remain so to this day and is the source of great conflict in the middle-east, Protestantism doesn't spread far enough and is easily countered.

The system is arcadey so people can get a silly one faith achievement .

I doubt they will change it, at heart vanilla EU IV mechanics are skewed in favor of aggressive expansionism, blobbing and world conquest in a period were this never happened because a strata of EU IV players love this kind of gameplay and they are the most vocal.
Paradox has tacked on blob nerfs over the years, corruption, state limits etc... but they are overall badly received by the WC/blobbing fans.

Everything happens too fast for the player: Colonization (especially in Africa), religious conversion, coring, army professionalism; I mean standing armies weren't a thing before the 1610s in Sweden and 1640s in Western Europe yet I can get "salaried soldiers" by the 1460s and "regimental mustering" by the 1510s at the height of the Condotierri Age, how ironic.
Even the most sluggish one, culture conversion is quite fast compared to the real world. I don't think Sicilians felt Spanish back in the 1600s, and I don't think they consider that period under Spanish Hapsburg dominion part of their cultural heritage. I mean they weren't truly Italians until early 20th century...

Of course the AI tends to lag a bit compared the player when dealing with all of the above and they are especially lousy colonialists, notably in the Americas.

I mean they take ages to start colonizing and don't even do so logically along their respective trade streams (i.e France going for Mexico, England for Colombia while Portugal owns the Caribbean and Spain Brazil, USA and Canada no one cares besides Norway or Scandinavia....)

Thing is by slowing things down, you make the game less fun, because as I said before at it's core E.U IV is a game about blatant and ridiculous expansionism and blobbing.
They can't just slow religious conversation or colonization down without making said mechanics more engaging, active and fun. If we are going to wait that long for conversions, coring or colonization to happen we need more dynamic events, revolts and management to do in peacetime.

Sure all the above irks historical OCD, pro railroading players like me but oh well, I still love this game, cuz it's way more historical than the civilization series.

So, food for though for EU V.

Cheers all, sorry if it was a bit ranty and off-topic

 

[Piotrzeci]

Realistically it is too fast. From the gameplay perspective it is better that way. I wouldn't like to see religious conventions go slower. Would there be a point to converting instead of just going for Humanist Ideas?
On the other hand someone proposed giving minus percentage for converting orthodox lands. Makes sense to me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's fast and the game's mechanical interactions depend on that. Changing that requires changing a lot of other things about the game.

I will also point out that after the nerf to Islamic conversion speed, the only nations that can actually convert fast enough to keep up with conquest rate in single player are Christian ones (Islam can kind of do it if you have all the triggered modifiers + trade company conversion DLC, but it's not worth).

Every other religion in the game converts so slowly, even with religious ideas, that it's not worth bothering from a cost proposition and you're better off just selecting humanist if not converting to Christianity.

4)wait until rebels occupy entire kingdom and convert it

Each rebel stack will take > 1 month for each province even w/o forts, and they often go to provinces with their religion.

Getting enough rebel stacks to do that in a reasonable timeframe is impossible for most religions. Islam can do it, by repeatedly granting land to an angry Dhimmi then revoking to generate more rebels. Dhimmi revoke can make rebels to convert a 1 province religion worldwide faster than other religious groups could convert the world to something like Sunni or Orthodox!

Other than novelty of seeing the world Animist or something there's no reason to do this though, Islam with Dhimmi + humanist (which you will want when you're going to have gobs of wrong religion everywhere for century+) will never have unity problems and if you're going Christian or Hindu just do it early.