Is Québec a playable nation now?

[Mewtini]

I sense someone is trying to force their own political opinions into the game

A nationalist trying to make their pet nation a special snowflake under the guise of balance and realism? Surely you jestin!

 

[ummd]

There were very few British settlers that settled in what had been New France between the Treaty of Paris (1763) and the end of the American Revolution. A few (mainly Scottish) merchants settled in Québec city and Montréal but that was pretty much it.

I thought there were a significant number of Irish in Montreal around this time.... (including my great-great-great-great-grandfather, who happened to argue actively against the union of Upper and Lower Canada)

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/waller_jocelyn_6E.html

Or do they count as British! <ducks>

 

[DarthDanMan]

Just from a general standpoint, having the ability to break up huge landmass spanning nations by "balkanizing" them is an idea I can get behind. And Quebec would be the most obvious releasable from Canada. For instance, having a couple in America would be nice as well for an alternate timeline split of the nation by the Axis.

 

[Nirmara]

There were very few British settlers that settled in what had been New France between the Treaty of Paris (1763) and the end of the American Revolution. A few (mainly Scottish) merchants settled in Québec city and Montréal but that was pretty much it.

The French-Canadian nationhood, as a concept before the late 1960s, was more of an ethno-cultural identity indeed. You got this. French-Canadians were the remnants of French colonization of Canada (which is the name of the French colony before 1763, not related to the government that branded itself that way in 1867) . The term used in the 19th Century and Early 20th Century up until the 60s was "race" and not nation. You could find French-Canadians in the United States, practicing their religion (catholicism) cherishing their customs up until the middle of the 20th Century in some of the neighbourhoods, towns and villages (Little Canadas) of New England. It really was a ethno-cultural/religious concept. «La foi est gardienne de la langue et la langue est gardienne de la foi».

The «Canadiens-français» nationhood flew into pieces in the 1960s. The French-Canadian ethno-cultural identity gave way to a Quebecker one as the debate on the Independence slowly redefined the political scene at the National Assembly in Québec. The only government the French Canadians were controlling was the National Assembly in Québec, and so, French people in Québec dropped the identity of their parents and ancestors for a civic nationhood that stemmed from the occupation of the territory (of nowadays Québec). If you would ask people in Québec now if they are "Canadiens-français", they would probably laugh it out. "French Canadians" doesn't refer to Quebeckers nowadays, it usually refers to French speakers outside of Québec OR to the old ethno-cultural identity my grand-parents used to brand themselves with.

I'm a college teacher, if you must know. And the French colonization of the Americas was my Master thesis' subject.

My criticism was about the nationalistic interpretation you gave of the term "French-Canadian" in the sentence I quoted and the lack of nuances of your previous interpretation.

As interesting as it can be, this discussion have nothing to do with the main topic, I would suggest we keep talking about Canadian history/Politic in the relevant sub-forum.

 

[Tempestra]

Both of theses cases are very unlikely and would only enable the creation of Quebec after the war (the point of playing this game being waging said war).

While that's true, it's also true for a lot of the nations you -can- release. Realistically countries like Kyrgyzstan etc are only going to appear after the war has been fought to a conclusion and yet... there they are.

It seems reasonable to me that at some stage Quebec should be releasable, but it shouldn't be a priority. It's more about fleshing out the game once it's a mature product, and it's definitely not there yet.

 

[Sanny]

I smelled freedom leaking out of this thread.

 

[SinsOfAnInterstellaTribe]

If Axis successfully occupied north America, maybe.

 

[Bronterre]

The basque country and catalonia would actually make more sense then this as those were to some extent entities at this point.

Maybe make it a releasable generic if it would add anything but I couldn't see anyone realistically doing so during this period (I mean if germany took canada I think they'd just keep it as a single entity).

I mean german plans for the UK didn't involve splitting it up and they had crazy ideas about the various british ethnic groups (they thought the English were Aryan and the Welsh were Slavic for some reason........)

If you want to make quebec its own special snowflake beyond this go make a mod I would suggest.

 

[Niptium]

I thought there were a significant number of Irish in Montreal around this time.... (including my great-great-great-great-grandfather, who happened to argue actively against the union of Upper and Lower Canada)

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/waller_jocelyn_6E.html

Or do they count as British! <ducks>

The Irish waves of migration came in the first few decades of the 19th Century. I was arguing that there was barely any British settlement in Québec between 1763 and 1783.

 

[hkrommel]

So since this thread has gotten very off topic at OP's expense, I think Quebec would be a good idea to implement in-game, along with other historical, subnational, or invented nations. If I take over North America as any occupying power, in the post-war settlement I'm going to want to break those countries up. Divide et impera.

 

[--Yigito123--]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of releasable nations; Their entire point is for them to be released after the war is over in a means of getting puppet divisions and/or roleplaying. The fact that it is illogical for a nation to be independent before the war doesn't matter because unless you release your own core lands as a puppet (Why would you do that?!), releasable nations will always be released by an outside force liberating/puppeting/satellite-ing them (There isn't really a mechanic for nationalist revolts in HoI4). And outside forces can do whatever they want to do, really.

In this meaning, the more releasable nations, the better, in order to have more flexibility on how to divide up lands. Since there is NO releasable nations in North America, Quebec would be a good place to start (A releasable nation for Newfoundland & Labrador might also be cool in order for Canada to not look weird post-Quebec).

 

[Baron Jukaga]

I'm in full favor of releasable nations in North America, it's a nice carrot to dangle to incentivize invading them as Germany or the USSR. Quebec, New England, Texas, CSA, California Republic, Great Plains Federation, New Columbia... put 'em all in!

 

[Mr Thursday]

What about the PRC (Peoples Republic of Cork)?

 

[Mewtini]

What about the PRC (Peoples Republic of Cork)?

Should be formable as soon as your leader produces a quality bottle of wine worthy of one

 

[Conway]

I feel like if you're going to make Quebec an existing nation you should at least make Newfoundland an existing nation like it actually was at the time

 

[Niptium]

I feel like if you're going to make Quebec an existing nation you should at least make Newfoundland an existing nation like it actually was at the time

Oh totally !