Is Québec a playable nation now?

[Niptium]

I was looking through some threads and fell on this one : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/quebec.987644/

Long story short, in 2016, people were asking for Paradox to consider making Québec a releasable nation from Canada. After all, it's not too far fetched that Québec could have become independent during this timeframe.

Already, in 1918, following the conscription crisis during the World War I (Quebeckers were massively opposed to it, but nevertheless the Canadian government decided to do so anyway), an elected representative of the governing party in Québec city presented a motion stating that "Quebec would be prepared to leave the Canadian federation if English Canadians felt the presence of Quebec was 'an obstacle to the union, progress and development of Canada' ".

The first elected independentist representative at the Quebec Legislative Assembly was François Aquin (who just died two days ago). He resigned from the Liberal Party of Québec in 1967, so only 22 years after the end of World War II.

 

[Stug_Life]

Can you make Kansas a playable nation

 

[The_Meme_Man]

I think it is more pressing that they make the city of Seattle a playable nation.

 

[CheesySnake]

At present, no. Though @podcat mentioned waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in one of the first dev diaries for Sunflower that "Fleshing out the game with more releasable nations is a long term goal." I imagine that is still the case and as WtD is a big expansion, we may see some here). I reckon if you can put together a convincing case for it I don't see why Quebec couldn't be releasable (either by Canada directly, or in peace deals).

 

[NaRen13AnnexYourself]

EVERY PROVINCE A PLAYABLE

 

[ChairmanMeow]

Well, I can't figure out the reason people play as independent Quebec, it's more or less like playing Tannu Tuva.

WE GOT SEPERATISTS EVERYWHERE!

 

[Dlin369]

Well, I can't figure out the reason people play as independent Quebec, it's more or less like playing Tannu Tuva.

WE GOT SEPERATISTS EVERYWHERE!

Who doesn’t want fun times balkanizing a region? Puppets everywhere!

 

[Meglok]

Nice Idea! We can change Murrica's Hat into Murrica's beret!

 

[ChairmanMeow]

Who doesn’t want fun times balkanizing a region? Puppets everywhere!

I can literally smell my CPU burning inside.

 

[billcorr]

Long story short, in 2016, people were asking for Paradox to consider making Québec a releasable nation from Canada.

Hidden in the original post, there is a business opportunity for Paradox.

Catering to local interests might generate sales for Paradox. More than likely, the marketing team at Paradox looks at sales in specific nations after the release of nation-specific content.

After the release of Together for Victory, did sales of HoI4 bump up in Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, and India? If so, perhaps identifying another market and tailoring content to that group may generate sales.

Perhaps Paradox should make special content (HoI4, Stellaris, EUIV, CK, Barbie's Nails) for a very large market such as China*.

Or Quebec.



*humor inspired by other threads discussing the Chinese market.

 

[Niptium]

EVERY PROVINCE A PLAYABLE

Stop your sarcasm. Québec was a releasable nation in HOI 2...

Besides, Canada is made of two distinct nations : Canadians and Quebeckers. There are several other aboriginal nations too.

 

[Mewtini]

Can you make Kansas a playable nation

Only if all the possible leaders are variations of Superman. Non aligned is Clark Kent, democratic is regular Superman, communist is Red Son Superman, and fascist would be either the Superman clone from The Death of Superman or General Zod

 

[Mr Thursday]

Having an option in the National Focus tree to Created a Puppet would make sense, however there is the whole French instant surrender thing...

 

[Nirmara]

Long story short, in 2016, people were asking for Paradox to consider making Québec a releasable nation from Canada. After all, it's not too far fetched that Québec could have become independent during this timeframe.

That would have been very unlikely without outside intervention. Quebec nationalist movement was simply not organized enough to make it happen on their own and due to the war, Canada would simply have used the War Measures Act to prevent it. Also, in the very unlikely case that it would have happen, Britain would probably have invaded anyway to secure North America.

Already, in 1918, following the conscription crisis during the World War I (Quebeckers were massively opposed to it, but nevertheless the Canadian government decided to do so anyway), an elected representative of the governing party in Québec city presented a motion stating that "Quebec would be prepared to leave the Canadian federation if English Canadians felt the presence of Quebec was 'an obstacle to the union, progress and development of Canada' ".

The impact of the conscription crisis is already well represented in the game with Canada modifiers and their national focus tree. The possibility of a having a second conscription crisis heavily influenced the Canadian strategy during the war. Sending only volunteers oversea (the zombies) for nearly the whole duration of the war is certainly the most representative measure adopted by the Canadian government to prevent a second conscription crisis.

The first elected independentist representative at the Quebec Legislative Assembly was François Aquin (who just died two days ago). He resigned from the Liberal Party of Québec in 1967, so only 22 years after the end of World War II.

A single deputy is not very representative of the legislative corps in general. While Quebec nationalist and autonomist were represented by the Union National of Maurice Duplessis, they were not independantist. As for Adélard Godbout, he won the 1939 election by promising that no Quebecer would be conscripted, he did not promise any form of independance.

As for Quebec independence movement, it really took off during the 60', way after HoI time frame. It would be anachronistic to represent this movement as a political force within HoI4.

 

[Niptium]

Well fine ! Canada sure would have adopted the War Measures against a Democratic Independence movement. After all, Canada wasn't more progressive or democratic than other nations during a time of duress.

But, HOI is a sandbox strategy game. Québec, as a nation exists since the 18th Century and still lives on today (they called themselves French-Canadian until the end of the 1960s, not as a measure of their loyalty to the 1867 Federation, but to distinguish themselves from English-Canadians that settled after the American Revolution). What if America had joined the Axis? If France turned Communist and chose to invade Canada with the help of the Stalin? It's all possible in HOI 4.

That would have been very unlikely without outside intervention. Quebec nationalist movement was simply not organized enough to make it happen on their own and due to the war, Canada would simply have used the War Measures Act to prevent it. Also, in the very unlikely case that it would have happen, Britain would probably have invaded anyway to secure North America.



The impact of the conscription crisis is already well represented in the game with Canada modifiers and their national focus tree. The possibility of a having a second conscription crisis heavily influenced the Canadian strategy during the war. Sending only volunteers oversea (the zombies) for nearly the whole duration of the war is certainly the most representative measure adopted by the Canadian government to prevent a second conscription crisis.



A single deputy is not very representative of the legislative corps in general. While Quebec nationalist and autonomist were represented by the Union National of Maurice Duplessis, they were not independantist. As for Adélard Godbout, he won the 1939 election by promising that no Quebecer would be conscripted, he did not promise any form of independance.

As for Quebec independence movement, it really took off during the 60', way after HoI time frame. It would be anachronistic to represent this movement as a political force within HoI4.

 

[Hopit]

Is Quebec like the balkans (or Yugoslavia) of the North America or something?

 

[Broletariat90]

I sense someone is trying to force their own political opinions into the game

 

[The_Meme_Man]

I sense someone is trying to force their own political opinions into the game

We could use Catalonia in this game. They should have 50 civilian factories AT LEAST.

 

[Nirmara]

Well fine ! Canada sure would have adopted the War Measures against a Democratic Independence movement. After all, Canada wasn't more progressive or democratic than other nations during a time of duress.

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but I'll consider that you are acting with good faith in this discussion so the answer is: Yes they would have. Winning the war was simply more important the right of a minority to govern it-self (that came as an international legislation in 1948 with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). Britain also invaded Iraq and Iran during the war to prevent, what they perceived as, going toward the Axis. An unilateral declaration of independence from Quebec would likely have resulted in a British/Canadian invasion to restore the status quo.

But, HOI is a sandbox strategy game. Québec, as a nation exists since the 18th Century and still lives on today (they called themselves French-Canadian until the end of the 1960s, not as a measure of their loyalty to the 1867 Federation, but to distinguish themselves from English-Canadians that settled after the American Revolution).

French-canadian is not limited to Quebecois, but also include any descendant of French colonist or Native American speaking french. Also, the use of Canada as a term to designate a certain political entity predate the British North America Acts. Finally, there were English in "Quebec" before the american revolution. In any cases, while there was an independence movement in Quebec before WW2, it was limited to a few radicals. Sure, many Quebecois resented Canadian rule, but that did not translate into a real political force until the 60'.

What if America had joined the Axis? If France turned Communist and chose to invade Canada with the help of the Stalin? It's all possible in HOI 4.

Both of theses cases are very unlikely and would only enable the creation of Quebec after the war (the point of playing this game being waging said war).

I just don't see the point of adding a flavorless tag to the game under such conditions. Even if they did, the result would simply be disappointing. Modders could do it I guess.

Is Quebec like the balkans (or Yugoslavia) of the North America or something?

No; Quebec independence is just a very sensitive topic for some peoples.

 

[Niptium]

French-canadian is not limited to Quebecois, but also include any descendant of French colonist or Native American speaking french. Also, the use of Canada as a term to designate a certain political entity predate the British North America Acts. Finally, there were English in "Quebec" before the american revolution

There were very few British settlers that settled in what had been New France between the Treaty of Paris (1763) and the end of the American Revolution. A few (mainly Scottish) merchants settled in Québec city and Montréal but that was pretty much it.

The French-Canadian nationhood, as a concept before the late 1960s, was more of an ethno-cultural identity indeed. You got this. French-Canadians were the remnants of French colonization of Canada (which is the name of the French colony before 1763, not related to the government that branded itself that way in 1867) . The term used in the 19th Century and Early 20th Century up until the 60s was "race" and not nation. You could find French-Canadians in the United States, practicing their religion (catholicism) cherishing their customs up until the middle of the 20th Century in some of the neighbourhoods, towns and villages (Little Canadas) of New England. It really was a ethno-cultural/religious concept. «La foi est gardienne de la langue et la langue est gardienne de la foi».

The «Canadiens-français» nationhood flew into pieces in the 1960s. The French-Canadian ethno-cultural identity gave way to a Quebecker one as the debate on the Independence slowly redefined the political scene at the National Assembly in Québec. The only government the French Canadians were controlling was the National Assembly in Québec, and so, French people in Québec dropped the identity of their parents and ancestors for a civic nationhood that stemmed from the occupation of the territory (of nowadays Québec). If you would ask people in Québec now if they are "Canadiens-français", they would probably laugh it out. "French Canadians" doesn't refer to Quebeckers nowadays, it usually refers to French speakers outside of Québec OR to the old ethno-cultural identity my grand-parents used to brand themselves with.

I'm a college teacher, if you must know. And the French colonization of the Americas was my Master thesis' subject.