Is Putting Artillery in Combat Batallions Historically Correct?

[PARAfel]

I was confused about that, i saw in one game when i was playing as German Empire that the Brits have created these divisions for protect the Isles, this explains when i invaded the isles in the first time and doesnt achieve much success, but when i discovered these divisions i push my country to do so i invaded and thats time all of the things do all right.

Is this Historically Correct? Is Efficiently? I see one person in the forum saying that this will get much deficit in artillery, Is this Correct? How i must use?

 

[sekelsenmat]

Your text is really hard to read & understand, maybe show a screenshot showing what exactly you are talking about with the relevant area circled.

 

[SophieX]

What kind of template do you mean?

Something like this ( only for example ) :
1)
inf inf Art
inf inf Art
inf inf Art

or:
2)
Art Art Art
Art Art Art
Art Art Art

 

[Phoenix VII]

Not entirely sure what your question is. If you're asking what sort of division the British historically used in WWII then it would've been;

Inf Inf Inf Art
Inf Inf Inf Art
Inf Inf Inf Art
( ) ( ) ( ) AT
( ) ( ) ( ) AA

 

[PARAfel]

Not entirely sure what your question is. If you're asking what sort of division the British historically used in WWII then it would've been;

Inf Inf Inf Art
Inf Inf Inf Art
Inf Inf Inf Art
( ) ( ) ( ) AT
( ) ( ) ( ) AA

These artillery are from combat battalions?

 

[George Parr]

These artillery are from combat battalions?

What exactly is a "combat battalion" to you?

Artillery - at least among all the bigger nations - was in its own regiment. Usually 3 or 4 battalions.
In the way HOI 4 is set up, this would put artillery alongside the infantry and not as a support-unit.

 

[PARAfel]

What exactly is a "combat battalion" to you?

Artillery - at least among all the bigger nations - was in its own regiment. Usually 3 or 4 battalions.
In the way HOI 4 is set up, this would put artillery alongside the infantry and not as a support-unit.

Combat Regiments and Battalions are the square in the division designer that change the width of the battle and theres 5 regiments with 5 batallions each one

 

[sekelsenmat]

Combat Regiments and Battalions are the square in the division designer that change the width of the battle and theres 5 regiments with 5 batallions each one

In that case yes, line artillery is historically correct and most nations had 24, 36 or 48 line artillery guns, which in hoi4 could mean from 1 to 4 artillery battalions depending how you count and on the country.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Not entirely sure what your question is. If you're asking what sort of division the British historically used in WWII then it would've been;

Inf Inf Inf Art
Inf Inf Inf Art
Inf Inf Inf Art
( ) ( ) ( ) AT
( ) ( ) ( ) AA

Plus an additional INF for the Independent machine gun battalion.

 

[PARAfel]

In that case yes, line artillery is historically correct and most nations had 24, 36 or 48 line artillery guns, which in hoi4 could mean from 1 to 4 artillery battalions depending how you count and on the country.

These divisions was used as defense or was used as attack too?

 

[sekelsenmat]

These divisions was used as defense or was used as attack too?

Most infantry divisions were multi-purpose, so defense and attack.

But Italy had "coastal" divisions and Germany had "Security" divisions for garrisoning only so defense only. No idea how much artillery they had, maybe less.

 

[PARAfel]

Most infantry divisions were multi-purpose, so defense and attack.

But Italy had "coastal" divisions and Germany had "Security" divisions for garrisoning only so defense only. No idea how much artillery they had, maybe less.

In the game what you think of these divisions?

 

[Takethe3]

Only around 15% of the British Army of the Second World War was front line infantry, and around 8% were in the front line with tanks. There was a large artillery presence and then a huge logistical tail.
Admittedly from wiki but this gives you a good idea:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Great_Britain_World_War_II_Infantry_Division_Structure.png

Of course then behind this were further service units.

 

[PARAfel]

Only around 15% of the British Army of the Second World War was front line infantry, and around 8% were in the front line with tanks. There was a large artillery presence and then a huge logistical tail.
Admittedly from wiki but this gives you a good idea:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Great_Britain_World_War_II_Infantry_Division_Structure.png

Of course then behind this were further service units.

Thanks

What kind of template do you mean?

Something like this ( only for example ) :
1)
inf inf Art
inf inf Art
inf inf Art

or:
2)
Art Art Art
Art Art Art
Art Art Art

The 1 originally but exists in real life the option 2?

 

[sekelsenmat]

In the game what you think of these divisions?

They are very useful. As Italy I make 6 inf + support artillery to garrison the ports. About 50 are necessary. As Germany 9 inf + support artillery and engineers to garrison the Atlantic ports. No point giving tons of artillery for them, their job is only to slow down the enemy until the combat units arrive and to kill naval invasions.

 

[billcorr]

Is this Historically Correct?

As pointed out previously, it is indeed historical to include artillery units in divisions.

Even Commonwealth units in The Raj in 1936, often included artillery units in their units.

...to include the RAJ cavalry units.

For example, in the organization table for RAJ units in 1936, the Decca Southern Command had the 17th and 21st Light Cavalry, complete with "E" Battery of the Royal Horse Artillery.

Note the additional artillery units (non-horse) assigned to the Decca Command (present day Bangladesh) that supported the Decca division.

 

[xtfoster]

As pointed out previously, it is indeed historical to include artillery units in divisions.

Even Commonwealth units in The Raj in 1936, often included artillery units in their units.

...to include the RAJ cavalry units.

For example, in the organization table for RAJ units in 1936, the Decca Southern Command had the 17th and 21st Light Cavalry, complete with "E" Battery of the Royal Horse Artillery.


View attachment 602366


Note the additional artillery units (non-horse) assigned to the Decca Command (present day Bangladesh) that supported the Decca division.

Except, the last time I checked, a battery is usually a roughly company sized unit of 6-12 pieces. So not (in that case) a line battalion, but instead a support Company. The Additional XI Field Brigade and XXV Field Brigade (and the 4 battalions of Infantry) would be independent Corps/Army assets that would be assigned temporarily (and as needed) to other units.

 

[billcorr]

Question: Is Putting Artillery in Combat Batallions Historically Correct?

(I think the OP is talking about divisions)

Re-written: Is Putting Artillery in Combat Divisions Historically Correct?


Here is an example of a 1935 German panzer division. Note the "organic" (that is to say, assigned) artillery units (highlighted in yellow)

Here is an example of a WW2 American infantry division:

The diagrams above come from here: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/accp/is7032/lsn2.htm

A circle in the middle of the unit symbol indicates an artillery unit.


The round object represents a cannon ball.

Spoiler: Large photo of one cannonball

 

[Alpha2518]

The round object represents a cannon ball.

Not related but, I work in the artillery field and I don't even know that. Can't notice now with all the other NATO symbols what they are also supposed to be and it the symbols making sense.

 

[Takethe3]

As pointed out previously, it is indeed historical to include artillery units in divisions.

Even Commonwealth units in The Raj in 1936, often included artillery units in their units.

...to include the RAJ cavalry units.

For example, in the organization table for RAJ units in 1936, the Decca Southern Command had the 17th and 21st Light Cavalry, complete with "E" Battery of the Royal Horse Artillery.


View attachment 602366


Note the additional artillery units (non-horse) assigned to the Decca Command (present day Bangladesh) that supported the Decca division.

All Indian Army artillery was British - a colonial policy dating back to the Mutiny. An Indian Division was broadly set up like a British one - 3 infantry brigades + artillery + support. In each brigade one regiment was Indian, one Gurkha, one British.