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Pomeranian

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I've seen a Mingsplosion in my current game, which is the first time I've seen one for about a year! I'm feeling brave enough to buy MoH now, but I want to double check that Ming are not still super OP on that before I buy it. Can anyone let me know about the state of Ming in MoH nowadays?
 

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Ming is still very OP and very stable.
I've eaten 40% of their territory, made them live with 0 Mandate for more than 100 years and still nothing. Absolute, total, complete, utter stability.
 

Pomeranian

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Ming is still very OP and very stable.
I've eaten 40% of their territory, made them live with 0 Mandate for more than 100 years and still nothing. Absolute, total, complete, utter stability.

Very disappointing. I think I'll save my money then.
 

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Mandate of Heaven has quite a few other features though that are nothing specifically to do with Ming, such as ages, state edicts and artillery barrage. I'm not saying it's necessarily worth the money, but don't mistake it for just an 'immersion pack' like Third Rome.
 

Pomeranian

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Mandate of Heaven has quite a few other features though that are nothing specifically to do with Ming, such as ages, state edicts and artillery barrage. I'm not saying it's necessarily worth the money, but don't mistake it for just an 'immersion pack' like Third Rome.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I may buy it and then just turn it off when I'm playing anywhere east of Anatolia. Does Ming still acquire a ridiculous amount of tributaries now? Or does it just take nations that border it?
 

zukodark

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Yeah, I'm aware of that. I may buy it and then just turn it off when I'm playing anywhere east of Anatolia. Does Ming still acquire a ridiculous amount of tributaries now? Or does it just take nations that border it?
I haven't seen many far away triburtaries myself. Though I might be an exception considering I have seen natural Mingsplosions many times since MoH. If I remember right, Ming was nerfed during this patch, though. Only a single Qing tho... Anyways triburtaries can usually be dealt with by becoming one yourself, which shouldn't be too hard if you do it early. And if you're a large nation starting to expand your influence in the region, it makes sense that they wouldn't let you.
 

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Yeah, I'm aware of that. I may buy it and then just turn it off when I'm playing anywhere east of Anatolia. Does Ming still acquire a ridiculous amount of tributaries now? Or does it just take nations that border it?

For the Mandate, Ming only needs to make sure neighbouring countries are tributaries, but sometimes it goes a bit further out. In my current game for instance, the outermost Ming tributaries in the west and south are Bengal and Malacca. It's not really an impediment to gameplay if you start out bordering Ming - just pay the Emperor his tribute and he'll leave you alone, and you're free to attack other tributaries. Being a tributary is not a problem: the tribute itself is minor, and it means you're effectively guaranteed by the Emperor against anyone who isn't a tributary (very useful for avoiding coalitions etc). If you're a horde, you can inflict a disaster on the Emperor by getting big (at least 300 development) and then suddenly refusing to pay tribute (preferably while the Emperor is distracted).

It's a bit different if you show up in the Far East as a major power, having already built up a power base elsewhere in Asia. Then, the Emperor probably won't let you become a tributary, so the Chinese imperial sphere of influence is generally off-limits unless you're prepared to fight the Chinese army. However, if the Emperor gets caught napping and you acquire a border with him somehow (a single province will suffice), then all of your development that's connected to the border will count against him and he'll start haemorrhaging Mandate. With the DLC, Ming doesn't tend to collapse just because of having low Mandate (not to be confused with Mandate of Heaven Lost), but his troops suffer such massive penalties that you should be able to get easy stackwipes and destroy his army.
 

Bibor

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Very disappointing. I think I'll save my money then.

And why would that be? Being a Ming tributary can cost you up to 12 mana per year. And that's for being as big as they are. That's the same amount of mana as if being over the diplo limit - trivial. In return, you can expand to Idonesia at will, and can gobble up India with immunity from coalitions.

In the Persia patch, Ming is not immune to damage. I've seen it loose a few wars to its own (ex) tributaries. They don't expand their tribute past Bengal anymore.
 

holyvigil

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A couple things I've noticed in this patch. Ming overall is the same. They are a little slower in getting Qing's mandate reforms done but not much. Second it's harder to become a tributary if you are big. If you border them they will ignore you or declare war. Some games they forced me to release nations so that we no longer border other times they demanded tribute.
 

Bibor

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Second it's harder to become a tributary if you are big. If you border them they will ignore you or declare war. Some games they forced me to release nations so that we no longer border other times they demanded tribute.

If you start small and build trust to 100 via tributes, I guess this still isn't a problem?
 

Badesumofu

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Actually it's been interesting, between barrage which is just amazing and my deliberately sub-optimal attempt to do a professional army WC in the current patch, I'm finding MIL is genuinely a scarce resource for the first time since I stopped taking MIL ideas before the 6th group.
 

ahyangyi

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Ming lost a war against Russia but was otherwise healthy in my current game.

And Ming was always beatable. And when you couldn't beat it you could just become a tributary and have fun eating other tributaries. Ming might be OP but it's not dangerous.