Is Ming nerfed in the new patch?

[J.Deng]

I just watched this time lapse and Mingplosion seems to be back (finally).
But I didn't see anything about nerfing Ming in the changelog. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Sfan]

Yes they were nerfed. Reforms now cost 70 mandate and bad events of low mandate have been made more frequent.

 

[DagIII]

Stronger than ever. 5-star adviser at half price, you know.

 

[deathbypie]

Stronger than ever. 5-star adviser at half price, you know.

Going from effectively infinite monarch points to slightly more infinite really isn't that important..

 

[PhoenixG]

pretty any non-horde country can get half price 5-star advisors.

 

[artemis667]

They're still the richest and most powerful nation in the game. It's just possible now that they will collapse.

 

[durbal]

That is the strangest timelapse ever. Like 1 in a million. Novgorod survives. Perm gets huge. Ottos die early. Transcontinental Transoxiana.

 

[enKage]

My first few games in Asia clearly say:
1) Ming didnt collapsed yet
2) Timurids have really bad time
3) Indian subcontinent is no longer Bahmanis vs Bengal/Jaunpur. I like the balnce there now. Gujarat is often more viable than previous pathes and nearly always very strong Andhra/Orissa on eastern coast

 

[PhoenixG]

In my Mamluks game Ming didn't collapse, but Ming did struggle to pass all the reforms. Each time one passed it drops the mandate to 30 and very often lose quite lot of his tributaries and some rebels. But he pulled through in the end.

 

[KubiG37]

My first few games in Asia clearly say:
1) Ming didnt collapsed yet
2) Timurids have really bad time
3) Indian subcontinent is no longer Bahmanis vs Bengal/Jaunpur. I like the balnce there now. Gujarat is often more viable than previous pathes and nearly always very strong Andhra/Orissa on eastern coast

1) agree
2) agree
3) in all my games so far in India exactly that happened every time, Bengal + Bahmanis, at least Ming has some opponent now (WHEN these two blobs stop insulting each other and instead form aliance against Ming)

 

[Parapluman]

Aye they where nerfed.
Low mandate gives bad events more frequently (and the possibility of no event as a "bad event" wa removed) and reforms cost more mandate.

 

[Sfan]

My first few games in Asia clearly say:
3) Indian subcontinent is no longer Bahmanis vs Bengal/Jaunpur. I like the balnce there now. Gujarat is often more viable than previous pathes and nearly always very strong Andhra/Orissa on eastern coast

It's funny, it's the opposite for me. I had Vij vs Delhi all the time, and now I always had Bahmanis vs Jaunpur this patch.

 

[makaramus]

My first few games in Asia clearly say:
1) Ming didnt collapsed yet
2) Timurids have really bad time
3) Indian subcontinent is no longer Bahmanis vs Bengal/Jaunpur. I like the balnce there now. Gujarat is often more viable than previous pathes and nearly always very strong Andhra/Orissa on eastern coast

timurids not supposed to have a good time althought... his vassals must have good times

afghanistan is candicate for mughals
tran... "hat of timur" I gonna call(that name) is candicate for timurid and west of them are candicate for persia
ofcourse its ok if they never form too! then it will become their story

 

[ywxiao]

Well my first game was as Manchu so I was biased that "Mingsplosion" occurred.
My second game as Saladin also saw a quick Mingsplosion, they dropped 300 development in 20 years, and had less than 100 development before 100 years were up.
So I guess 2 in 2 if you count Manchu game *cough*

Image attached for second game.
Ottoderps easily became the number one superpower. What I find is that they are much richer than before because of the Persia patch. They used to have the problem of having a massive FL but can't use it because of money concerns, but now it's no longer an issue.

 

[Sfan]

That's due to the massive improvements of the buildings.

 

[iquabakaner]

My first few games in Asia clearly say:
1) Ming didnt collapsed yet
2) Timurids have really bad time
3) Indian subcontinent is no longer Bahmanis vs Bengal/Jaunpur. I like the balnce there now. Gujarat is often more viable than previous pathes and nearly always very strong Andhra/Orissa on eastern coast

I played two games so far. Timmy survived and integrated most of its vassals in one, and disappeared in the other.

 

[Yxklyx]

They had an early mingsplosion in my game and it makes the game more interesting. Ming is just a regional power now, not a great power with 646 development. Only passed 2 reforms in the late 17th century.

 

[raikaria]

A pretty simple; yet effective; nerf.

Mandate hit from passing a reform is now 70. This means; due to the 80+ requirement; that Ming's Mandate immediately after passing a reform will be 10~30; as opposed to the previous 30~50.

This changes Ming's penalties immediately after passing a Reform from 20~0% to 40~20%. Meaning even if Ming is waiting for 100 mandate; they're still vunerable after passing a Reform. Not to mention it simply takes longer to recover Mandate. A successful Manchu can realistically beat a Ming who is taking 40% increased damage.

Combine this with the rather bad events Ming gets for being Sub-50 Mandate; and Ming is no longer 100% guaranteed to succeed [In fact; I would say NO country is a sure-fire 100% success in this patch under AI hands... which is a good thing. Historically; no country was GUARANTEED to succeed.]

HOWEVER; if Ming does survive it's Reforms; they're actually even stronger than before. The ability to Promote Advisors is expensive... but that is almost a non-issue to the vast treasuries of China; especially when you throw in Meritocracy. Ming will be running full +5 advisors; giving them +2 monthly in each catagory. This almost guarentees that a successful Ming will be ahead of even Europe in technology come the 1700's.

Also higher level advisors further increases Ming's meritocracy; which makes their advisors cheaper; as a feedback loop of sorts.

Ming *can* explode. Ming can also succeed. This is about where Ming should be; unlike the past where a Mingsplosion was like 75% chance; or post-Ming patch where it was 5% at best.

 

[TheAtreides84]

I've tried three times to make Ming collapse as Timurids. Never succeeded. Even at zero mandate they are still relatively strong.