Yep learned this the hard way have a whole bunch of planets that are half useless now cause of either tech or resource shortfalls. Next game I'm taking Mastery of Nature first.
Is Mastery of Nature worth it?
- Thread starter SuperGeek89
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i'd say "no"
for me it's one of the worst ascension perks.
fist you can have all benifits if you spend some time to unlock all tech.
second: i usually use "blocker" tech as a cheap and fast way to re-roll "drawn tech cards"
for me it's one of the worst ascension perks.
fist you can have all benifits if you spend some time to unlock all tech.
second: i usually use "blocker" tech as a cheap and fast way to re-roll "drawn tech cards"
Just use a governor or pass the planet off to your sectors for a while till it's done.
Early game it's very strong for expansionists.
You can immediately use all the best tiles on planet (at a time when that actually makes a difference) and way more planets become viable colonization targets.
When you can pic your first perk you should already know if there are the right types of panes in your vicinity.
If you get the right combination of planets & blockers is can allow you to snowball really hard.
You can immediately use all the best tiles on planet (at a time when that actually makes a difference) and way more planets become viable colonization targets.
When you can pic your first perk you should already know if there are the right types of panes in your vicinity.
If you get the right combination of planets & blockers is can allow you to snowball really hard.
No, you can't have all the benefits of MoN from tech, because there is no tech that reduces the cost of blocker removal at all, let alone making it cost 0E + 0M. The biggest possible blocker removal discount is -40%, and requires both a suitable Ruler and a suitable Governor.
Unless you're planning to play tall, it's really hard to pass up mastery of nature as your first perk. Over the course of a game it will save you so much science and resources, and it will start doing so at the point where you're really struggling for these things.
If you are planning to play tall, you could skip it though.
If you are planning to play tall, you could skip it though.
If you have extremely adaptive or a way to very quickly get other species to colonize different types of planets is almost mandatory.
If you're a fast colonizer and have low science/production output it's also very good.
If I stay on one planet type/have very high science output/don't expand much with colonizing early game, others can be better.. especially if you want both an ascension path and the ability to build all megastructures.
If you're a fast colonizer and have low science/production output it's also very good.
If I stay on one planet type/have very high science output/don't expand much with colonizing early game, others can be better.. especially if you want both an ascension path and the ability to build all megastructures.
never considered cost to be a problem at all. in the worst case i've seen it's only 150M and 150E
and even if you will consider it, the benefits will still eventually end: you have a small finite number of tile blockers.
while, for example, research speed or 200 fleet cap will help you til the end of the game.(both are very situational too, don't forget)
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Like a lot of the stuff to do with traditions, this is one of those things I feel can be anything from near-useless to amazing depending on the situation. In my first game I actually went with it as my first pick because I ended up with a lot of planets that were a) large and b) covered in blockers. The amount of research points I saved on all the separate blocker removal techs and the amount of minerals/energy I saved on the removals being free (!) was a huge early-game boost and definitely made it feel like a solid pick.
Standard cost for a blocker is 100M + 100E, which... adds up when you find a world where all the really good tiles are blocked.
Galactic Force Projection (+200 fleet cap) isn't really competing with Mastery of Nature. GFP can't be taken until your third pick, and even people who think MoN is really good aren't going to take MoN as their third-or-later pick.
Technological Ascendancy (+10% research speed) is competing with MoN, but still has a finite scope to its usefulness in SP (can't comment on MP) and is not as strongly front-loaded in its benefits as MoN.
maybe you're right. i just said that i've never considered price. cuz it's so low that i usually can queue to clear every blocker on every planet as soon as it's researched.
and as i was saying i use blocker tech to reset social "cards".
for example if you have 2-3 useless techs and a blocker. you can quickly research blocker for a chance to have something useful faster. this method helped me a lot when i were trying to rush gene tailoring.
you can add it into the list too.
ps: ok. i've got your idea. as a 1st pick sometimes in can be good.
sometimes map tradin can be also good, but personally i'll never trade maps with anyone. ever.
and as i was saying i use blocker tech to reset social "cards".
for example if you have 2-3 useless techs and a blocker. you can quickly research blocker for a chance to have something useful faster. this method helped me a lot when i were trying to rush gene tailoring.
oh, and +10% unity perk
you can add it into the list too.ps: ok. i've got your idea. as a 1st pick sometimes in can be good.
sometimes map tradin can be also good, but personally i'll never trade maps with anyone. ever.
That one does get less powerful the more research you spend in tile blocker techs. So first is best but, unless you've been hitting tile blocker research like a man possessed, it's probably still a pretty strong pick.
I would say MoN is definetly worth it early game. In my current game I I was struggling in terms of EC, lots of minerals but very little EC. And what EC existed on my planets was locked away by tile tile blockers. But by picking MoN I no longer have to research ANY of the Tile blocker techs, and tile blockers are now free to remove. Now my empire has gone from +0/1 EC and +114 minerals a month to +60 EC and +220 minerals a month. And that's mostly from my core systems!
Basically MoN saves the most vital resource; Time. You don't need to stockpile early game for removal, AND no need to research blocker removal. A very useful perk indeed that is still useful late game
Basically MoN saves the most vital resource; Time. You don't need to stockpile early game for removal, AND no need to research blocker removal. A very useful perk indeed that is still useful late game
The one thing is planning certainty. You know you can remove blockers with MoN.
Tileblocker Techs have a T1.2 times 2 Weighting. With 0.5 weight if you just finished a blocker tech. x1.25 if you have New Worlds specialist.
There is 9 of them. And you can not draw them until you got that Tileblocker on any colonies and at least 2 planets.
Funny enough Mastery of Nature increases the weighting by a factor of 4. Maybe it should originally increase weight, rather then just giving you all of it?
The other is cost. 100 Energy/Minerals are a lot of resources early game.
Even the very cheap tileblockers on teh capitol can easily cost: 300 Energy and 300 Minerals. Wich is a ton in the early game. That equals two Robots + 200 Minerals or almost all the minerals for a Colony Ship or Space Port. Consider if you luck out with a early Enclave and can trade that energy for Minerals.
It is way worse with Colonies, where evey tileblocker cost 100 of each and you need to wait for the tech.
Oh, I noticed a 3rd Effect:
Master of Nature does not override that you need the techs. It GIVES you the techs. That is 9 T1 techs.
That will instantly unlock Tier 2 Technologies, while removing all those cards from the deck.
Especially if you go for a Robot heavy build (where you need to unlock droids as colonist asap) it could be a massive bonus.
Master of Nature does not override that you need the techs. It GIVES you the techs. That is 9 T1 techs.
That will instantly unlock Tier 2 Technologies, while removing all those cards from the deck.
Especially if you go for a Robot heavy build (where you need to unlock droids as colonist asap) it could be a massive bonus.
I didn't think about it that way. That is powerful in the hands of the right player who knows how to use it.
Master of Nature seemed so powerful to me - between the saving of thousands of minerals, and free tech unlocks - that it almost seemed an auto-first pick. If you don't pick it first though it really loses it value.
Tens of thousands of minerals and energy
All of which can instead be spent on development or military or buying stuff from enclaves
All of which can instead be spent on development or military or buying stuff from enclaves
for me it is a no-brainer first pick, its so good i actually thought it was OP at first. the thing most people dont seem to realise is that it gives all its benefit really early in the game which in all 4x games is the most crucial part, doing well in the early game is what leads to the snowball effect in the mid game.
someone compared it to the 10% tech bonus which i found utterly underwhelming, you wont see much benefit from that perk until much later in the game once it has had the chance to tick over for a few decades and having a tech advantage in this game isnt as important as it is in most 4x games anyway.
MON followed by the border range perks seem like no-brainer first and second picks, there is nothing in the list as good as those available as early.
someone compared it to the 10% tech bonus which i found utterly underwhelming, you wont see much benefit from that perk until much later in the game once it has had the chance to tick over for a few decades and having a tech advantage in this game isnt as important as it is in most 4x games anyway.
MON followed by the border range perks seem like no-brainer first and second picks, there is nothing in the list as good as those available as early.
I thought different tech tiers were unlocked by category. So that it would only unlock tier-2 Society techs.
Am I wrong on that?