Is it possible to upgrade your technology group?

[Spikee78]

Like the title says ... I'm playing as Mali.

Main reason is that despite best efforts, I can't keep up with military power (although I'm 'only' two levels behind).

I'm running into serious trouble with Portugal and Spain, I need to be able to hold myself together.

 

[Sunspawn]

But technology groups do not do anything now, except qualifying you for cossacks for Eastern.

 

[LetaBot]

Forming some nations will change your technology group. Forming the Mughals will change your tech group to Indian.

 

[Meshed Gear]

But technology groups do not do anything now, except qualifying you for cossacks for Eastern.

The different tech groups get different infantry and cavalry, with different numbers of pips.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/images/6/60/Infantry_pips.png

Western units start out as the worst at a given tech level, and end up the best.

It is technically possible to upgrade your tech group, but it generally requires forming certain countries like the Mughals, which you probably aren't in a position to do.
I personally find it easier to challenge Portugal and Spain at sea, and use overwhelming numbers on land.

 

[PhoenixG]

Don't think is even worth it. At late game all non-western group units have the same amount of pips.

Like the title says ... I'm playing as Mali.

Main reason is that despite best efforts, I can't keep up with military power (although I'm 'only' two levels behind).

I'm running into serious trouble with Portugal and Spain, I need to be able to hold myself together.

Your main problem isn't the tech group. Don't know in what time period your in, but early game your units are stronger (has more pips). Your problem is your behind in mil tech.

 

[maxirage]

But technology groups do not do anything now, except qualifying you for cossacks for Eastern.

It actually affects your neighbor bonus tech discount. If you don't happen to share a direct land border with European/Eastern nations, it's actually a huge issue.

 

[Foefaller]

Dump some DIP points into your gold mines to make some more ducats, Hire the best Military Advisor you can get with those extra ducats, and try to avoid spending and MIL points on anything else until you reach tech parity with Europe.

Also, if you completely missing the latest institutions (especially if you're at or near +50% cost penalty for one) start dumping ADM and DIP into your capital until it's embraced there.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

Embracing by developing is only useful for certain institutions, this is also dependent from the corner of the world you play in. As Mali, you have maybe a chance to get feudalism out of Marocco when they are fighting Iberians or something, although this is not likely. So if you cant get it from there, develop it. Renaissance, develop it. Colonialism you can maybe spawn in your country by colonizing South America yourself or if you cant spawn it a colonial nation will help spread it over your country alot, no need to develeop. Printing press needs to be developed, Global Trade, Manufactories and Enlightenment easy spread to your country, as long as you have CoTs/manufactories/universities.

 

[ISitOnGnomes]

Embracing by developing is only useful for certain institutions, this is also dependent from the corner of the world you play in. As Mali, you have maybe a chance to get feudalism out of Marocco when they are fighting Iberians or something, although this is not likely. So if you cant get it from there, develop it. Renaissance, develop it. Colonialism you can maybe spawn in your country by colonizing South America yourself or if you cant spawn it a colonial nation will help spread it over your country alot, no need to develeop. Printing press needs to be developed, Global Trade, Manufactories and Enlightenment easy spread to your country, as long as you have CoTs/manufactories/universities.

Assuming you are caught up in tech, printing press really doesnt need to be developed for. Just get DIP tech 15 and set the institution spread edict in your capital

 

[Robert de Bruce]

Eh? Printing press fires in 1550. The historical year for DIP 15 is 1596. This nearly means you pay 50%+ for every tech when you hit 1596. Ofcourse you can take it some years earlier for paying even more points, plus the additional points in the other 2 categories. But i'm pretty sure this is a lot more expensive than developing, especially when developing gives you a good province for the rest of the game, your strategy has no other benefit than additional costs.

 

[ISitOnGnomes]

Eh? Printing press fires in 1550. The historical year for DIP 15 is 1596. This nearly means you pay 50%+ for every tech when you hit 1596. Ofcourse you can take it some years earlier for paying even more points, plus the additional points in the other 2 categories. But i'm pretty sure this is a lot more expensive than developing, especially when developing gives you a good province for the rest of the game, your strategy has no other benefit than additional costs.

The only benefit for your strategy is about 30 development and a free institution for your neighbors, who get to spend their stashed points on cheap techs rather than development. The first fifty years of not embracing an institution are the easy part. The reason to develop early is when you know you wont get it otherwise for much longer than 50 years. In my opinion the only 2 institutions worth developing for is feudalism if you are stuck in africa and renaissance. Colonialism usually spreads well enough unless you are stuck in central asia, and everyone can get the others just by trying.

 

[DanubianCossak]

The different tech groups get different infantry and cavalry, with different numbers of pips.

No they dont. Those are called unit groups. You can be western tech group and have eastern units.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

No they dont. Those are called unit groups. You can be western tech group and have eastern units.

In principle anyway, does anyone actually get this combo? Most nations align tech/unit group, with only a few exceptions like Mughals and Assam.

As many have pointed out, the difference in the mid-late game is miniscule, and I'd argue other groups are actually stronger overall if not for neighbor bonus available to western since the extra pips early w/o cannons mean their relative influence on battle is greater.

 

[DanubianCossak]

In principle anyway, does anyone actually get this combo? Most nations align tech/unit group, with only a few exceptions like Mughals and Assam.

As many have pointed out, the difference in the mid-late game is miniscule, and I'd argue other groups are actually stronger overall if not for neighbor bonus available to western since the extra pips early w/o cannons mean their relative influence on battle is greater.

Not sure about vanilla, probably not.

But a very good thing about the system is that its usable for mods.

But apart from that i would very much like to add unique regional unit groups. For example i absolutely hate that the Caucasus, Balkans, Byzantines and Russians/Poles all get the same unit models.

It would be pretty easy to split each one into its own unit group while all retaining eastern tech group (which makes the scripting part much easier, adding a tech group... is pita).

 

[Robert de Bruce]

The only benefit for your strategy is about 30 development and a free institution for your neighbors, who get to spend their stashed points on cheap techs rather than development. The first fifty years of not embracing an institution are the easy part. The reason to develop early is when you know you wont get it otherwise for much longer than 50 years. In my opinion the only 2 institutions worth developing for is feudalism if you are stuck in africa and renaissance. Colonialism usually spreads well enough unless you are stuck in central asia, and everyone can get the others just by trying.

Neighbours? Which neighbours? At that time, i don't care about my neighbours anymore. If they still exist, then because I could not afford all the points to take them over. But they aren't any thread at all anymore, regardless if they have euqal tech or not.
And maybe its new to you, but at that time I usually have empires being too large as that I could embrace an institution from one province. So I still need to wait to spread it to more provinces, which means I wait even longer with your method, even more expensive.
In the given example Mali, around 1550 the remaining threads should be European majors colonizing, Ottos and maybe a welldoing north african power. All of them won't get printing press from Mali.

 

[PhoenixG]

No they dont. Those are called unit groups. You can be western tech group and have eastern units.

That is not true. Since westernazation is a thing in the past, tech group is the only thing that is to your units type. If you change your tech group, you'll also change your units type. There are very few tag switch that do this.

 

[ISitOnGnomes]

Neighbours? Which neighbours? At that time, i don't care about my neighbours anymore. If they still exist, then because I could not afford all the points to take them over. But they aren't any thread at all anymore, regardless if they have euqal tech or not.
And maybe its new to you, but at that time I usually have empires being too large as that I could embrace an institution from one province. So I still need to wait to spread it to more provinces, which means I wait even longer with your method, even more expensive.
In the given example Mali, around 1550 the remaining threads should be European majors colonizing, Ottos and maybe a welldoing north african power. All of them won't get printing press from Mali.

If your neighboring Europeans then why develop the institution yourself? Just steal it off them.

 

[DanubianCossak]

That is not true. Since westernazation is a thing in the past, tech group is the only thing that is to your units type. If you change your tech group, you'll also change your units type. There are very few tag switch that do this.

You can be Tech Group = Western and Unit Group = Eastern with a simple 1 line change to a country history file.

 

[PhoenixG]

Well you just enter in to the territory of modding and not vanilla base game.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Well you just enter in to the territory of modding and not vanilla base game.

You can find the same thing in vanilla, erm, form mughals decision and possibly bukhara iirc.