Is it possible to survive as the Byzantines?

[Akintude]

I'll freely admit it. The only reason I really bought this game is, after playing as the Byzantines and smashing the rest of the world and making it purple, I decided I wanted to stop playing on "easy" mode" and give them a try in 1453, when they were literally on the verge of death. Starting the GC scenario as Byzantium, however, I'm feeling a little discouraged and/or hopeless. Only two provinces, and rather far from each other and not connected by land, and although Thrace (Constantinople? Istanbul?) is heavily populated, it isn't especially lucrative. I have a decent army of about 15,000 infantry and 6,000 cavalry...ok, except Thrace is surrounded on all three sides by three Ottoman armies of equivalent composition and size.

On the up side, it seems the potential for expansion is pretty huge, even if we aren't likely to ever reach our original borders. Simply retaking Greece, the Balkans, Smyrna, and the assorted Greek-culture islands held by various powers is going to be my goal -- unite all the provinces that I have cultures on, and then simply chill out and attempt to create a stable and strong state that will survive the turbulent times ahead. What should be my first step? Is it possible to make early war on the Ottomans and not get my head kicked off? I figure if I can take one or two of their provinces early on, I can even the odds a little and give myself some breathing room. I notice I have permenant casus bellis on a LOT of countries...does that mean I have "cores" on them? How can I see which provinces are my "cores?"

Most importantly of all, should I take advantage of the opportunity to convert the empire to Catholicism when the chance arises by event? And, if so, should I change it back at the later event?

Any advice on recreating the once great Hellenic empire is welcome and appreciated

 

[Dell19]

Mods like AGCEEP make a Byzantine recovery nicer as they introduce a set of fantasy events so that you can get a trade centre in Thrace once you defeat the Ottomans.

The main technique is usually to blockade the Bosphorus whilst the Ottoman armies are in Asia and then be free to take all their Greek cities and/or attacking them whilst they are at war with Hungary or someone else.

My recent games as Byzantium have started with me declaring war on some of the smaller neighbours first so for instance on MyMap I went to war with Venice and then annexed Athens before taking on the Ottomans.

 

[Al Merko]

It depends on which version you r playing. In vanilla (where you have Thrace&Morea) I sugest you to quick annex Trabzond, Kostamou, Teke to get some provinces and therefore some money from taxes. Try to ally Venice or Hungary and attack Ottomans when they are at war with Mameluks, Hungary or Venice. But you must know that playing with Byzantines isnt easy. Good luck!

 

[unmerged(4344)]

There's not much reason to go Catholic unless you plan, at minimum, to expand into Italy. It will hose your short-term productivity and more or less double your stab costs, because most of your core is Eastern Orthodox.

You can see your core (marked with little shields) if you click on the politics display button. (It's the button with the two flags crossed, just above the minimap.)

 

[unmerged(62118)]

I would start gobbling up the little island states in the meditaranean (spelling) and that would give you better tax base. Once that happens spend a good 5 years building up armies, navies, tax collectors, forts, and anything else. When you're done with that you should be WELL prepared for war with the Ottomans and a VERY successful result. The Ottomans usually wear themselves out fighting with nations like the Mameluks and the Timurid Empire. So for the most part let them be, but don't let them get too powerful. Also do what the Ottomans did historically, build an empire on trade. Discover India (by sharing explorations) and build small colonies there. That's what they did historically that made them incredibly powerful.

 

[Akintude]

I'm having a lot of trouble winning the initial war with the Ottomans...as they always seem to declare war on me as soon as the game starts. I split my fleet and deploy them to the two sea zones to prevent movement of the Anatolian Ottoman armies over to my side of the pond, but the Ottoman navy seems larger (though not by too much.) I usually see some early success, but my navy is eventually destroyed sooner or later. So, too, is it with the army. I march my 21,000 byzants and lay siege to Macedonia, but the Ottoman garrison there seems to love to march south and besiege my southern Greek province. The screwy part is, they seem to always complete their siege there faster than I do-- even though they are inevitably sieging Morea with less troops than I am employing against Macedonia. In fact, last time, they took Morea while Macedonia was still at "in twelve months," despite their besieging force being 13,000 compared to my 18,000.

Is there any way to speed up sieges? :wacko: Oh yeah and not die

 

[Dell19]

The best way to speed up sieges is to start more. The AI has a one track mind so once it starts a siege in Morea you should be able to start sieges in at least three of their provinces. Alternatively sieges should complete faster if you use a blockade or have a leader with the right skills.

Also if you heavily outnumber them then you might want to try attacking them since it should be possible to wipe out their army. On a side note you should really download one of the mods.

 

[Akintude]

On a side note you should really download one of the mods.

Why? People told me this all the time, and I tried VIP but, to me at least, vanilla was far better and more straightforward. The introduction of Revolutions made this even more of a no-brainer, but I'll definately give VIP a try when a Revolutions version comes out.

Anyway, which of these mods would you recommend? AGCEEP? What in particular does it change? I'm still trying to get a good solid command of the game's mechanics, so I don't want to add a bunch of new crap onto the plate before I'm finished eating, so to speak

 

[Dell19]

I would say AGCEEP and I made the comment since I like the fantasy Byzantium events where they can gain a trade centre in Thrace which doesn't happen in Vanilla. Additionally Byzantium starts as an Ottoman vassal so they will not immediately attack you.

 

[unmerged(19063)]

There is also a huge, involved Byzantine Restoration event chain for AGCEEP that, if followed, will bring you back to the Empire of Justinian I.

It's called the Byzantine Events Annex, and actually... it may have been adapted for vanilla. I don't recall.

 

[unmerged(62118)]

DO NOT SPLIT YOUR FLEET. Don't do that, that's a bad idea. Keep the fleet the same and patrol it through the Straits of Marmara (I don't know what it's called in the game, but the straits between Anatolia and Thrace) that should keep them at bay. Pretty early in the game you get a Monarch for a general, which will speed up your sieges and help you win battles. You've got to make sure that the Ottomans do not besiege Constantinople, this is your core your lifeline your GAME don't let it happen. Also for the first part of the war, fight defensively. The AI usually wears itself out because it sends its troops deep into enemy territory and they recieve a good amount of attrition. So do that and if you have any more questions, ask me I'm in a game with them right now also.

 

[SeedSnatcher]

There is also a huge, involved Byzantine Restoration event chain for AGCEEP that, if followed, will bring you back to the Empire of Justinian I.

It's called the Byzantine Events Annex, and actually... it may have been adapted for vanilla. I don't recall.

They aren't adapted for vanilla (we'd have noticed by now), but they are part of the main AGCEEP.

 

[Cataphract887]

This thread is an interesting wash of inaccuracy...thrace becomes a CoT in unpatched in 1420.

Very strong CoT, half-decent starting position, cores on dozens and dozens of countries...my first nation when i played, and not that tough at all. Even AI vs AI, byzantines 99% of the time in my games destroy turkey. You can take several provences from turkey in the first war alone...just dont defend your cities, seige the ai instead In my current game as austria they have 1 provence left, killed by wallachia\kuraman\byzantines.

The 1650 WC with trebizond should answer beyond any doubt that they are playable. After all, trebizond is even weaker.

 

[unmerged(33767)]

This thread is an interesting wash of inaccuracy...thrace becomes a CoT in unpatched in 1420.

That happens only if the Ottomans conquer Thrace, then they receive an event where they can opt to move their capital to Constantinople and get a CoT there as a result.

 

[Lord Finnish]

I managed to conquer whole area of ancient Rome as byzantines. Tho i finished my expansions in late 1600.
Just take patience. Your worst enemy are arabs. try to ally with close christian countries blaa blaa...

 

[HJ Tulp]

Cavalry is the key, atleast it was always for me. Don't forget, your Capital province Thrace is plain and on plain, even more so then the rest of the world, cavalry is king. Blockade the Aegean Sea to keep the Ottoman forces to redeploy from Asia, use your cavalry to take care of any European Ottoman armies and your infantry to besiege the European provinces.

 

[CatKnight]

God almighty..

First, yes; Byzantines are very winnable. Difficult, but it can be done.

Second, unless you're absolutely sure DON'T grab AGCEEP. Some people like it. Others don't. There are plenty of mods out there.

It is true that AGCEEP caved into Byzantophiles and added some fantasy events for them. Is it needed to play? No. Is it needed to prosper? No.

As others said: Don't split your fleet. Patrol. Remember that shift-left click is your friend when moving: It allows you to set waypoints, so if I want to patrol I move to A, then shift-move to B, then shift-move to A, etc. Do this a number of times and your fleet will be quite happy.

Again as others said: Start multiple sieges. The AI will be happy to go for Thrace or Morea. Thrace is expendable ... the AI can't take it anyway. Do not let Morea fall. In a peace deal, do not surrender Morea.

Many people seem to like the idea of building up relations and allying with the Ottomans. This gives you time to consolidate your position, and in vanilla the Ottoman AI will end up bogging down in Asia Minor. Then when they're weakest, crush them.

 

[Reveilled]

Why? People told me this all the time, and I tried VIP but, to me at least, vanilla was far better and more straightforward. The introduction of Revolutions made this even more of a no-brainer, but I'll definately give VIP a try when a Revolutions version comes out.

Anyway, which of these mods would you recommend? AGCEEP? What in particular does it change? I'm still trying to get a good solid command of the game's mechanics, so I don't want to add a bunch of new crap onto the plate before I'm finished eating, so to speak

The AGCEEP is a mod which tries to create greater historical accuracy in EU2 by having a more accurate setup at gamestart, as well as heavily event-driven sections of history, alongside oneshot historical events to guide countries.

e.g. The Hundred Years War in the AGCEEP is a heavy event driven sequence with loads of events, which alongside the core mechanics of the gameplay allow more realistic and sensible courses and outcomes to the HYW. Also, several single events in the direction of historicicity are implemented, like events to turn over Constantinople to the Ottomans if one of their allies siezes it, ensuring that the Ottomans don't lose out of the city and all the benefits they get from it. Most events have alternative outcomes, which allow for ahistorical outcomes. For example, the English can choose to pull out of France altogether, and thereby the player can avoid having to lose the Hundred Years War just to play a non-continental England, and Constantinople's new owner can choose to go to war with the ottomans to keep the city. Further, focus is taken away from Europe so heavily, with many non-European nations having interesting event sequences and such.

In many ways, the AGCEEP is sort of like the VIP on crack. You may wish to avoid it if you disliked VIP. On the other hand, I would highly recommend giving it a go in any case. You might find sufficent difference in the AGCEEP to like it.

There are other mods you may wish to consider, such as Europa Portugallis, which improves the performance of the AI controlled countries quite drastically from what I hear, or Aberration and Interregnum, which have alternative history setups that include a shrunken but not dead Byzantium.

 

[unmerged(33767)]

God almighty..


As others said: Don't split your fleet. Patrol. Remember that shift-left click is your friend when moving: It allows you to set waypoints, so if I want to patrol I move to A, then shift-move to B, then shift-move to A, etc. Do this a number of times and your fleet will be quite happy.

Actually you can just left click area A, then shift+left click area B and then check the "patrol box", your fleet will keep sailing between these two areas until it is knocked out of them by an enemy.

 

[unmerged(52468)]

The opening game as Byzantium

I don't have much new to add, but still:

* Spend money like a drunken sailor. First thing you do is crank up the Land tech, borrow money and order 10000 cavalry in Thrace. If anyone's stupid enough to give you money you take it, spend it, and hope the bankruptcy is still a loan away. You'll end up with some very unpleasant inflation but IMO it's worth it if you can smash and conquer the Ottomans early on.

* Spend the money on cavalry (and maybe a few galleys if you've won some naval engagements and you think you have a shot at naval superiority).

* An early state gift to Trebizond (sp?) can make them sufficiently friendly to join in the early war against the Ottomans. They won't do much to kill the enemy hordes, but they'll distract them and with any luck they'll grab a province while the Ottomans loose men to attrition besieging their capital.

* If the Ottomans don't start a war right away it's probably because they've gotten into a war with someone else. Wait until your recently commissioned cavalry is completed and with full morale, then go after them while they're weak(er)!

* Don't waste your men. Avoid engagements that might cause heavy losses. If you start loosing significant numbers, run away. (If you go bankrupt in mid-war your men will make the "run away" decision for you at the drop of a pin. That's ok. You probably shouldn't have been fighting a pitched battle anyway.)

* Infantry is used for sieges. 5500 men is enough for one siege.

* Kill the enemy with superior numbers of cavalry on the plains, preferably as they're crossing or landing from ships.

* Your ships probably won't be able to stand up to the amassed might of the Ottoman fleet. Run away unless you have a great advantage in numbers or you really need to keep some army from crossing.

* Don't be afraid to break a peace treaty with the Ottomans if you see an advantage.