Is it possible to start as a count in a kingdom and rise to be a duke and then become the king?
If yes, how? :wacko:
If yes, how? :wacko:
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It takes a lot of skill especially in the beginning, but it's doable.
Some things to consider:
Some things to consider:
- You are very weak in the beginning, so take every chance you get to expand your county. A high Stewardship rating is extremely important in the beginning. Later on when you have more provinces, you will need high Intrigue on your character to manage your expanding demesne.
- Get your prestige high and wait for an opportunity to claim the lands of a weak neighbour. Good targets are counts that have recently declared independence (and are thus a) engaged in a war already, and b) don't have the backing of a powerful liege. Claims on excommunicated rulers are cheap, so try and get them if you can spare the Prestige.
- Try to become a duke as soon as possible. You will be able to maintain a larger demesne, and you can increase your presige and piety by handing out counties and bishoprics to your courtiers and family members.
- Be careful of your badboy rating. In the beginning as a County this shouldn't be a problem, but once you are a Duke and you have vassals to lead, you should try to keep your badboy down.
First, you have to become an owner of 66% of the provinces (I believe that's always the case) that belong into natural area of the title you want to have. Second, you should have enough prestige to be able to usurp the title.
For the planning, go to the current title holder's (presumably your liege or liege's liege) Action Screen and click at the "Usurp Title" and then click on the title that you wish to have. It gives you the list of the provinces that belong naturally under the title ("yes" behind names you already own), and shows a prestige you should have for usurping the title (that figure changes in time, though).
Of course, if you have patience to wait at least one generation, you could manage to become a King also through the successful marriage.
Marry your son to the daughters of neighbouring rulers and then make sure the ruler has no male heirs of his own. Requires that your target has semi-salic law.
As above...
Start as a count by forging claims on your neighbours in the same ducal area, and marrying their daughters to your sons if they have semisalic law. Once you have claims on them, wait until they turn independent and then stomp them before your liege interferes -- or grab their land by assassinating other heirs, so your (grand)son will inherit.
Alternatively, if you're close to heathens or pagans, conquer enough land to become a duke. The trick is to act fast enough that your liege will not sign peace.
If you haven't become a duke through conquest, usurp the title of your liege, and wait until they break free from the king before conquering.
As a duke the same rules can apply to become king, but in many cases there may be vacant king titles around... conquer enough titles until you own 66% of the area, and declare yourself a king.
Alternatively, pledge to a kingdom with elective law (Byzantium and Sweden start with this, others may become elective over time). Once you have the title, switch to salic law.
An alternative trick you can use if you live on the border of two strong kingdoms, like Germany/France, Germany/Hungary, or e.g. Poland/Hungary, is to pledge allegiance to the neighbouring realm once you're disloyal enough, then use your new liege's forces to grab the titles you claimed.
Start as a count by forging claims on your neighbours in the same ducal area, and marrying their daughters to your sons if they have semisalic law. Once you have claims on them, wait until they turn independent and then stomp them before your liege interferes -- or grab their land by assassinating other heirs, so your (grand)son will inherit.
Alternatively, if you're close to heathens or pagans, conquer enough land to become a duke. The trick is to act fast enough that your liege will not sign peace.
If you haven't become a duke through conquest, usurp the title of your liege, and wait until they break free from the king before conquering.
As a duke the same rules can apply to become king, but in many cases there may be vacant king titles around... conquer enough titles until you own 66% of the area, and declare yourself a king.
Alternatively, pledge to a kingdom with elective law (Byzantium and Sweden start with this, others may become elective over time). Once you have the title, switch to salic law.
An alternative trick you can use if you live on the border of two strong kingdoms, like Germany/France, Germany/Hungary, or e.g. Poland/Hungary, is to pledge allegiance to the neighbouring realm once you're disloyal enough, then use your new liege's forces to grab the titles you claimed.
Definitely possible - that's what I did in my latest game. I started as the count of Braganza, and I'm now the King of Portugal and France.
It isn't easy, though. My first two attempts failed, but third time is the charm, it seems. Also, the early game in such a case is tense, heavily based on diplomacy and with lots of waiting for any lucky breaks and opportunities to take more provinces. Tense, but really, really fun, and very rewarding.
BTW, I'm playing with DVIP and More Kingdoms mods - I don't think you can be Count of Braganza in the unmodded game.
It isn't easy, though. My first two attempts failed, but third time is the charm, it seems. Also, the early game in such a case is tense, heavily based on diplomacy and with lots of waiting for any lucky breaks and opportunities to take more provinces. Tense, but really, really fun, and very rewarding.
BTW, I'm playing with DVIP and More Kingdoms mods - I don't think you can be Count of Braganza in the unmodded game.
I'm planning on doing this soon. Start as the (Muslim, of course) count of Baghdad (the Abbasids) and slowly hegemonize power in the area, eventually becoming a mighty empire once again...
Definitely possible! I first started as the count of Galaz, and now, 350 years later, the Tich dynasty is the ruler of the whole known world.
The elective law used in the Byzantine principalities did help greatly, though. I spent the first 20 years waiting to be elected the new Prince of Mesembria. I mostly archived this by various assassinations. As the ruler of Mesembria, I now started an offensive against the Pecheneg pagans with the aid of the crumbling Byzantine Empire. Just as I was going to create the Kingdom of Bulgaria, I was elected the new Emperor of the troubled Byzantium. That's how the glorious South-Slavic Roman Empire was born.
My opinion is that starting as a county can be a very rewarding and sometimes a challenging experience.
The elective law used in the Byzantine principalities did help greatly, though. I spent the first 20 years waiting to be elected the new Prince of Mesembria. I mostly archived this by various assassinations. As the ruler of Mesembria, I now started an offensive against the Pecheneg pagans with the aid of the crumbling Byzantine Empire. Just as I was going to create the Kingdom of Bulgaria, I was elected the new Emperor of the troubled Byzantium. That's how the glorious South-Slavic Roman Empire was born.
My opinion is that starting as a county can be a very rewarding and sometimes a challenging experience.
The fastest way is probably to start as an independent Swedish Count. There are plenty of one-province pagans to bash in the Baltic, and you don't need claims to start wars with those guys. Wait until they (and their allies) are engaged is some other conflict, declare war, and take their province.
In particular target the Duchies of Courland, Estonia, and Samagotia (hover your cursor over a County, that'll tell which Duchy it's in). Courland and Estonia are two provinces, Samagotia is three, so if you can seize two provinces in any one of those Duchies you'll be able to buy the Ducal title for that area for 100 gold.
Then you pledge allegiance to Sweden. The Swedes elect their King which means the guy with the most land is the Crown Prince. The three counties you have should put you on top, but it would probably be wise to seize a fourth just in case. Then you wait for King Erick to die. This can take awhile. In the meantime kill more heathens. It's good for you.
Note that pledging allegiance to Sweden earlier can make your wars more winnable, as the King's army can scare some of your enemy's. But it can also be a major pain in the ass as Kings tend to take your rightful conquests for their own and/or make peace with random pagans for a handful of coins.
I used Kalmar Lan for this in my first Count-to-King game. I actually had to restart a few times when the pagans beat me. As a Count you only have one regiment, so if something bad happens you're screwed. But the time it worked I actually ended up with enough of Lithuania to make myself King of that country before Erick died. I still waited, tho. Sweden was a free King-title, and I liked the CoA more.
Nick
Tmutarakan 1066 is an interesting county as well. You start with 2 counties, but no duke titles. You're vassal to a prince to the north who you are also first heir for(and he is a good bit older). Your liege will generally deter the pagans around you from attacking while you can whittle away at them until you can claim a duke/prince title. You can also try to assasinate the old man so you can inherit some from him if you get enough gold and he lives longer than he should. Haven't played until the Mongol arrive but by then hopefully you would have pushed west some for a buffer
The easiest is marriege (your oldest son + kings daughter) but sometimes you have to wait for much time to do it.
(king has lots of boys, king oldest daughter already married)
That of course only works if the kingdom is on a semi-salic law...
Easiest by far is to pledge to an elective realm. Just conquer some lands to become the most powerful vassal and you will inherit on liege death... then change to salic.
Easiest by far is to pledge to an elective realm. Just conquer some lands to become the most powerful vassal and you will inherit on liege death... then change to salic.
I know it's possible. My recent game I started as the Count of Leon. Eventually got the Dukedom of Brittany (north left tip of France) from aligning myself with the King of England. I conquered much of France, and then while I was there crushing rebellions I noticed I had a claim to the title of France from an earlier period (when I was really weak), so I brought my army over there and knocked on his door and he politely gave it to me.
So from Count to King, and not even using elections. Instead, I used the diplomatic method of parking a huge army on his front lawn and knocking on his door saying "can i has ur title plz?"
So from Count to King, and not even using elections. Instead, I used the diplomatic method of parking a huge army on his front lawn and knocking on his door saying "can i has ur title plz?"
A prime target for this in the 1066 scenario is the Duchy of Aquitaine. The eldest child is Agnes d'Aquitaine, marrying her and fathering offspring will put your mutual son first in line for succession, meaning he will inherit the largest duchy in France, with plenty of wealthy provinces and vassals to fight your wars with.
A prime target for this in the 1066 scenario is the Duchy of Aquitaine. The eldest child is Agnes d'Aquitaine, marrying her and fathering offspring will put your mutual son first in line for succession, meaning he will inherit the largest duchy in France, with plenty of wealthy provinces and vassals to fight your wars with.
And Aquitaine's not in a bad position to attack the muslims in Spain, either (started with them in my current game). I've usually tried the marriage trick to either England or France: both Kings are relatively young in 1066 (france is underage), can't remember if they have any children, but if you're willing to wait for 20-30 years, one or both should have a daughter. Of course, this probably applies to a lot of realms, those two are just usually my preference (well, at least the Kings don't have sons and grandsons already...)
France in 1066 has Salic Primogeniture, though, so no matter how hard you try, you just won't get the French throne via marriage.
I started a campaign in 1066 as the Count of Dauphine Viennois and through a series of circumstances including attacking Lyon, waiting until the Kingdom of Germany imploded and attacking my Duchy of Provence, I timed my attacks and eventually was offered the King of Germany opportunity. Of course I jumped in and took advantage of it. This all happened by 1079 and none of my offspring had yet come of age. Now I am at 1082 and looking at tidying up my borders and trying to build a bigger blob empire. From Count to King in 13 years.
Its not that hard to become King from count actually i never play anything lese than a count and nearly always at least become Duke. Especially with being able to inherit the Jimenez titles quite easily and with the Kingdom of Germany nearly always imploding these titles arent hard to get at all. Dont even take them anymore as it feels to gamey. So nut much of a challenge really and i can say that if i can achieve that, i am not a really good gamer.