Is it possible for any game to fail as hard as moo3 did ? ( I don't think it is )

[Oscot]

am i the only one here who still loved spore
its still best evolution game there is by far
and i spend hundreds of hours playing it even trough space era was mediocre

No, you're not the only one (although I think you're crazy that you prefer the pre-space segments). I thought Spore was alright, and I bought Galactic Adventures and had fun with it.
However, I'll admitthatthis might be because I had no idea what the PLAN for the game had been while I was playing it, so I didn't have any appreciation of the squandered vision. It'd be likeplaying Beyond Earth if you'd never played Civ V or SMAC: you would have no concept of what might have been.

For me Endless Space was a bit of a letdown. Sure I enjoyed it but it just felt it was a bit shallow.

Let me go further than this. Endless Space was generic, low-end shit. It has a nice UI but that's literally all it has going for it, and I have no idea what anyone sees in it.

EDIT: Had I read further before exploding I would have realised that Howe and Voss made my point for me. It is just not fun.

Playing it is like playing a game designed by robots, for robots.
Capture-interchangable-node-$512.
Capture-interchangable-node-$513.
Capture-interchangable-node-$514.
Uuuuuuuuurgh

 

[hjarg]

Nobody remembers Daikatana? Remember, John Romero is going to make you his bitch. Except that Romero had no idea how to manage a company, so the whole thing was three years late and flopped like a landed whale.

More like no-one cares. Or in the end, no-one expected it to be good. Also like Duke Nukem Forever.
Or Battlecruiser SomethingSomething AD, where the only person expected this game to be good was Derek Smart! Derek Smart! Derek Smart! (wonder if this still works)

These are more like expected flops.

 

[apoc527]

So, I think context is important when discussing flops. Obviously, the award goes to MOO3 for me, as I've stated.

Moving slightly off-topic, I was thinking of making a list of every space 4X game I've played and putting it in some kind of hierarchy. Off the top of my head and going quickly, here's what I've got:

Classics

• MOO
• MOO2
• GalCiv2 with full expansions
• Stars!

Enjoyable with Few Flaws But Not A Classic

• Ascendancy
• GalCiv I
• Armada 2526

Enjoyable In Spite of More Than A Few Flaws

• Endless Space

Not Good Games (but maybe could be)

• GalCiv 3
• Star Ruler (??-- I swear I tried it...but can't really remember)

Oh The Humanity

• MOO3
• StarDrive
• Legends of Pegasus (based on comments I've read)

Games I've Never Tried And You Should Weigh In On

• StarDrive 2
• Horizon
• Distant Worlds: Universe
• Civ: BE (only sort of counts)
• Star Ruler 2 (am I making this up?)

So, why am I so excited for Stellaris? Because, quite frankly, it's something new. From what I gather, DW:U is closest to it, but since I've never played it, I can't say for sure.

 

[Trithemius]

So, I think context is important when discussing flops. Obviously, the award goes to MOO3 for me, as I've stated.

Moving slightly off-topic, I was thinking of making a list of every space 4X game I've played and putting it in some kind of hierarchy. Off the top of my head and going quickly, here's what I've got:

Classics

• MOO
• MOO2
• GalCiv2 with full expansions
• Stars!

Enjoyable with Few Flaws But Not A Classic

• Ascendancy
• GalCiv I
• Armada 2526

Enjoyable In Spite of More Than A Few Flaws

• Endless Space

Not Good Games (but maybe could be)

• GalCiv 3
• Star Ruler (??-- I swear I tried it...but can't really remember)

Oh The Humanity

• MOO3
• StarDrive
• Legends of Pegasus (based on comments I've read)

Games I've Never Tried And You Should Weigh In On

• StarDrive 2
• Horizon
• Distant Worlds: Universe
• Civ: BE (only sort of counts)
• Star Ruler 2 (am I making this up?)

So, why am I so excited for Stellaris? Because, quite frankly, it's something new. From what I gather, DW:U is closest to it, but since I've never played it, I can't say for sure.

Star Control 2 is missing from Classics.
I loved Ascendancy for the weirdo races and theoretically random elements in tech but you are right largely because of the Trivially Exploitable Mechanics and The Dinging.

 

[apoc527]

Star Control 2 is missing from Classics.
I loved Ascendancy for the weirdo races and theoretically random elements in tech but you are right largely because of the Trivially Exploitable Mechanics and The Dinging.

Is Star Control 2 a 4X game? I never really considered it as one. But yes. Totally a classic.

 

[Admiral Howe]

So, I think context is important when discussing flops. Obviously, the award goes to MOO3 for me, as I've stated.

Moving slightly off-topic, I was thinking of making a list of every space 4X game I've played and putting it in some kind of hierarchy. Off the top of my head and going quickly, here's what I've got:

Classics

• MOO
• MOO2
  
• GalCiv2 with full expansions
• Stars!

Enjoyable with Few Flaws But Not A Classic

• Ascendancy
• GalCiv I
• Armada 2526

Enjoyable In Spite of More Than A Few Flaws

• Endless Space

Not Good Games (but maybe could be)

• GalCiv 3
  
• Star Ruler (??-- I swear I tried it...but can't really remember)

Oh The Humanity

• MOO3
• StarDrive
• Legends of Pegasus (based on comments I've read)

Games I've Never Tried And You Should Weigh In On

• StarDrive 2
• Horizon
• Distant Worlds: Universe
• Civ: BE (only sort of counts)
• Star Ruler 2 (am I making this up?)

So, why am I so excited for Stellaris? Because, quite frankly, it's something new. From what I gather, DW:U is closest to it, but since I've never played it, I can't say for sure.

Love, would recommend.
Meh, playable if you're bored.
Well, try it at least, you might like it more than I.
Oh, dear God, run away.
Haven't tried.

And I'd add (first two are near-4X):

Starfleet
StarFleet II
Emperor of the Fading Suns

 

[Ramidel]

Civ: BE isn't the same genre, it's a successor to Alpha Centauri, which is a Civ-alike.

If Civilization were Final Fantasy, then Alpha Centauri would be Chrono Trigger. A sister game that was on par with or better than the main series at the time. Beyond Earth isn't Chrono Cross, fortunately; it's a solid A game, though it doesn't really shine as well as Alpha Centauri did (this is partly my nostalgia speaking), and it gets points for doing something new instead of retreading AC.

Sid Meier's Starships is terrible, though, and worse for the attempt to tie it in with Beyond Earth - which came across as the usual monetization nonsense.

And Emperor of the Fading Suns is a glorious trainwreck of a game. It's immersive despite being an almost unplayable mess of a beta build, and it's fun if and only if you can overlook the bugs.

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

CiV Beyond Earth is actually an alright game if view it from a vaccuum in time and space where no previous 4x or Civ games has ever existed. The fact is that it's just too similar to CiV.

 

[Trithemius]

Is Star Control 2 a 4X game? I never really considered it as one. But yes. Totally a classic.

Its basically confederation formation so it is not Civ/MoO direct control style but I think it is.

Ditto The Last Federation which is also excellent btw!

 

[apoc527]

Wow, I suck at memory.

Sword of the Stars -- enjoyable but flawed.
Sword of the Stars 2 -- oh the humanity.

And yes, Emperor of the Fading Suns. Great game.

 

[Oscot]

• GalCiv 3

What was the problem with Gal Civ III?
(This is not a trick question: I agree that there WAS a problem, but I'm not exactly sure what the consensus view of said problem is).

Games I've Never Tried And You Should Weigh In On

• Civ: BE (only sort of counts)

Beyond Earth will be worth picking up when you can get it plus the expansion in a sale for maybe $15.
It is possible to squeeze about $15-worth of fun out of them. But pay any more than that and you lose out in the transaction.

 

[apoc527]

Wow, I suck at memory.

Sword of the Stars -- enjoyable but flawed.
Sword of the Stars 2 -- oh the humanity.

And yes, Emperor of the Fading Suns. Great game.

And Birth of the Federation. Isn't that the Star Trek 4X that was surprisingly decent?

 

[Trithemius]

Wow, I suck at memory.

Sword of the Stars -- enjoyable but flawed.
Sword of the Stars 2 -- oh the humanity.

And yes, Emperor of the Fading Suns. Great game.

Emperor is so campy and terrifyingly unbalanced!

 

[apoc527]

What was the problem with Gal Civ III?
(This is not a trick question: I agree that there WAS a problem, but I'm not exactly sure what the consensus view of said problem is).

The AI is still busted and the game still has lots of mechanical issues. I really do have hope for GalCiv 3 though. It's just not there yet. Far more damaging to GalCiv3, however, is that we've seen it all before. There is literally nothing new or unique or different about GalCiv3.

Stellaris, on the other hand, can redefine the genre and become a true Classic.

 

[apoc527]

Wow, I should have done my research.

Space Empires I-V. Some were okay.
Reach for the Stars (the reboot) wasn't terrible. But not good.
Imperium Galactica 2 is actually a spiritual prequel to Stellaris.
VGA PLANETS. Nuff said.
The Pax Imperia series. I'm sure I played one of them.
Haegemonia (was this a 4X? I think it tried to be...)

And more. THis is fun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4X_video_games

I will say that this makes me appreciate MOO and MOO2. Those are TRUE classics insofar as everyone has played them.

 

[Ramidel]

Emperor is almost perfectly balanced between the PC factions - depending on your strategy both Decados and Hazat have the same chance of winning, despite being on opposite sides of the board. The AI is too dumb to realize that they're not coming out on top of the deal if you trade your vote for the Imperial Fleet, and they never figure "hey, maybe I'd better throw the third office to someone else instead of this guy who's supporting me for one election."

 

[Oscot]

Stellaris, on the other hand, can redefine the genre and become a true Classic.

I usually mock the people who make "Hurr it's not out yet, u can't knowwwww" comments, but pre-declaring a game to be a genre-redefining classic is beyond the pale even for me.

Hurr, it's not out yet, u can't knowwww!

CiV Beyond Earth is actually an alright game if view it from a vaccuum in time and space where no previous 4x or Civ games has ever existed. The fact is that it's just too similar to CiV.

Beyond Earth I think suffers from the same problem I bitched about r.e. Shogun 2. That is, they made the same game as the previous game, but with massively reduced faction variety and most of the units taken out.

And then in the expansion they tried to be cheeky and put differentiated units back in, except all the new unique units are shit and no-one in their right mind would ever build them. Which in a way is worse than the units not being there at all, because it makes you realise the devs either don't know or don't care what they're doing. So then you feel like a shmuk for playing their phoned-in game and trying to like it.

 

[grumphie]

Spore. It was my first true gaming disappointment. So much hype, so many lies. I even bought the Galactic Edition; my first gaming purchase with my own money without relying on the parents. I've since had many disappointments from EA, but that betrayal will always hold a special place. Never before nor ever since, has so much potential been so squandered.

the worst part was that it even was pretty fun to play too but just so insanely full of lies and wasted potential. i still got a healthy dose of fun out of it, but it was such a gigantic waste.

 

[apoc527]

I usually mock the people who make "Hurr it's not out yet, u can't knowwwww" comments, but pre-declaring a game to be a genre-redefining classic is beyond the pale even for me.

Hurr, it's not out yet, u can't knowwww!

Whoa there. I said Stellaris "can" be a genre re-defining classic. Not that it IS one. I say that because of Paradox's track record and experience. Certainly, not every game has the potential that Stellaris does. That's why I'm more excited about it than the ridiculous swarm of space 4X games being released or developed right now. explorminate.net has a great list--there are so many.

Right here: https://explorminate.net/known4xgames/

 

[Ramidel]

Beyond Earth I think suffers from the same problem I bitched about r.e. Shogun 2. That is, they made the same game as the previous game, but with massively reduced faction variety and most of the units taken out.

Can't comment on Rising Tide, but I didn't mind BE having highly similar factions, because factions differentiate based on tech tree and culture over the game - which fits with their theme. Likewise, I didn't mind how they did their core units despite the genericness and lack of real choices, with only a little spice from the affinity units. The core of Civ has never been the combat engine.