Is it possible for any game to fail as hard as moo3 did ? ( I don't think it is )

[Safehold]

Now that's just being petty from Russian government.

If I recall, it was about the NKVD shooting Russian soldiers in the back to make them charge the enemy. Like that Stalingrade depiction in some WWII shooters. A lot of nations with a strong national core, tends to disallow showing embarrassing moments in history. For the Russians, it probably hurts to see a period of time in which Russians were killing Russians for power. It makes it hard for the State to claim that everybody was united, one for all, and all for one in defense of the Mother/Father land.

These days Military youth clubs are a big thing in Russia or Ukraine. Saw a vid of one. In the US, we have girl and boy scouts, they have military drills and uniforms. The US used to ban all kinds of stuff around WWII, even the ones that lied about Wake Island and the Marines. Now a days people are feeling too guilty to be promoting nationalism or patriotism. The Russians probably have a better word combining the two terms into one though.

To get to the point, I don't think it is petty of the Russian government to pull the games from shelves and pressure the digital distributors to prevent it from being sold there. I think for a culture focused on unity, certain things have to be removed for the common benefit. Even though that's not a benefit to anybody else outside the country.

 

[Grivies97]

The worst flop I had to take was from Peter Molyneux. I was expecting a new Populous the Beginning, and what have I got? What have I got?!

 

[davidz97]

Also, Stronghold 3 was a major flop. Last game that i bought based purely on the box art. It was an expensive but necessary lesson

 

[lordreaven448]

Spore: Not exactly a terrible game but very disappointing unto itself. I feel bad for WIll Wright as it was his baby and EA ruined a genuinely beautiful game.

Civ BE: Alarm bells started ringing when the lack of any real info before release seemed odd. I still like the game, but I feel the team wasn't really into the project and it felt forced.

Rome 2: Oh man, CA ruined all goodwill I had with them with this release. I only bought Attila because I LOVED Barbarian Invasion (Best TW campaign in my opinion) and the post release videos were good enough for me to buy it. However I despise Rome II and it's the only TW game that I think that mods cannot even save it.

Attila: now let me start by saying Attila is a good game, infact would be the best TW game if CA gave a damn. The problem with Attila is that CA is refusing to fix the issues that plague that game, like the AI attacking the player to such an extreme that it's suicidal. The AI doesn't try to form empires (though with the newest patch it does make an effort, which is better than before the patch).

There are more games but of the 4 I listed only Rome 2 is the one that hurt me the most. WHat made it sting even more is that the last TW game I pre-ordered (or bought) before Rome 2 was Empire.

 

[LordKevster]

Yes, is it possible and it also illustrates what sets Paradox apart from many other publishers/developers for me.

1. They know what they can do well (Excellent game design for grand strategy games) and constantly hone and expand this unique and key strength while working with other studios that excel at their respective genre.

2. They listen very closely to their fans and know us nerds very well. Now of course not everyone likes every design decision all the time. But there are few developers with their ear comparatively close to the community.

Sim City is a very good example of a publisher and their studio not doing the second part at all. If they did that they would have made a game like Cities Skylines, because that is what people who play these type of games want. I don't have any sales figures for Sim City, but the damage done to that brand is definitely significant.

 

[Alucardex]

I never got all that excited about the games mentioned on this thread. Although I must say/write that the Rome 2 videos about the gimmicks and other stuff in it, were pretty hilarious to watch.

For me, playing some of these games weren't nearly as entertaining as researching and watching the controversies span years or even decades.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-dropped-ideas-for-mass-effect-trilogy-ending
...

Very interesting interview. As an anime fan I find it kind of hillarious that their original idea was pretty much the plot from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann XD.

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

Very interesting interview. As an anime fan I find it kind of hillarious that their original idea was pretty much the plot from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann XD.

I wish Mass Effect had the guts to have an ending as good as TTGL.

 

[lordreaven448]

Them are fightin' words.

Skyrim took out everything tedious and horrible from Oblivion. The only thing Oblivion did better was writing, and that was only when it came to the Dark Brotherhood.

I agree, Skyrim fixed and improved many of the failures of Oblivion (and even Morrowind). Example, Attributes.If you played a Warrior you took Strength and Endurance in Oblivion. Skyrim basically combined both of them because A) You were taking both most of the time anyways and B) It made leveling up less tedious.

Skyrim really was brilliant when you looked at the mechanics that got streamlined compared to how much was actually lost. And it's the first TES game where we actually didn't really lose any skills (Barter was merged with Speechcraft, Mysticism split up so spells went to the more logical schools, and we gained enchaniting). All I want now is hand to hand back as a skill and the next TES will be great.

 

[Bladrov XII]

One of the most memorable game failures in recent memory. I loved the amount of well-deserved abuse that EA copped for, well, everything.

Pity they won't learn. They still have a few beloved IPs being held hostage.

They won't learn as long as you people keep giving them money. TOR and Sim Shitty's looming failure was plain as day if you knew how to look.

 

[Jarac Rassen]

They won't learn as long as you people keep giving them money. TOR and Sim Shitty's looming failure was plain as day if you knew how to look.

Especially Sim Shitty. Once I heard "online-only" I knew it was gonna be a major flop. Hell, just looking at the videos showed just how awful it was gonna be.

Paradox has taken the mantle of city-builder from EA with Cities: Skylines, and thank goodness.

 

[Felidae]

MoO3 actually had the core of a decent game. However, it was certainly not a game in the Master of Orion tradition, and that dissonance really hurt the game. The dev team had their own vision, and by the time someone checked up on exactly what kind of game they had made, it was too late to revert. So it was decided to polish up what they had into a 'working' (for a certain definition of working) state, and push it out the door.

Honorable mention: Skyrim

Took out everything enjoyable from Oblivion.

Completely disagree. Oblivion was a decent game, but the setting was kind of generic, the level scaling extremely obvious, and the Oblivion areas got extremely generic after a while: Eventually I just chugged a couple of chameleon potions and ran through to grab the Sigil stone.

Skyrim, on the other hand, brought a more exotic locale, got rid of Oblivion's round faces (ugh!), made the level scaling much less obvious, and has little points of interest, hidden quests, and other things to discover around every corner. Sure, it ain't perfect, and it did away with a bunch of things from Oblivion and Morrowind that (imo) would better have been kept. But overall, I don't think there can be any doubt that Skyrim is objectively the better game.

But still, objectivity aside, it can't account for subjective taste...

 

[Safehold]

Very interesting interview. As an anime fan I find it kind of hillarious that their original idea was pretty much the plot from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann XD.

Well, if it had been one of those Japanese otaku sci fi writers, I'm sure the audience would have been amazed at the plot twists. Assuming Mac didn't do the translation at least.

I do often wonder how much of Western stuff is influenced by Japanese media works now a days. Maybe there's a lot but nobody wants to admit it. Or perhaps, it's like movies and you only find out decades later that this movie was really pivotal in influencing the next gen of directors.

Addendum: Bioware's writing team for ME was a group of individuals and they would normally hash out concepts, ideas, rewrite things, and so on, until it met a certain standard. That's why ME3's side quests had it, but the ending didn't. Because the ending was just pushed out without any revision whatsoever. The normal Bio/EA defense was that Bio does their art thing and you can either like it or not. The real story that you had to get from the internal leaks is that Bioware's top didn't even follow their own guidelines.

My point is that I don't think dark matter was their primary plot, just something they discussed for a potential future. But the Dark took over the Lead Writer's brain and what people got was what they got. It really does remind me of George Lucas. Some people may be very creative, like Walters, but give them executive design decisions and... well, something interesting might happen.

 

[WolfStark]

Well in regards to 4X games I think the last major flop was Legend of Pegasus. Was the game even playable at release?

 

[Binovian]

To me, lately the biggest disappointment is not finding any 4x that captured my will to play. Endless legend/space, all of Stardocks, Galciv3, Age of Wonders 3, even warlock...last game that I enjoyed but very different has been Thea, so I really hope Stellaris will get me.

 

[McDog]

MoO 3 wasn't a fail, it was just misunderstood.
People expected something like the previous two games (a simple Civilization-like 4X strategy), but got something else entirely.
It was just too complicated for most players, and that's why it was such a disappointment for many.
Nevertheless, it's a decent game if you have the patience to figure everything out. Some people actually like overly complex mechanics, games like Aurora and Distant Worlds have their fans too.
Stellaris isn't a continuation of a series, so there's no such problem. We'll get what we expected.

I think one of the big issues with Moo 3 was a design change late in the development of the game. It sounded like it was pushed /forced by the publisher and after that the game was rushed out the door. Now the original design if I recall was sort of Distant Worldsish so had they kept their vision perhaps people would still hate it. At least Stellaris has one vision, we'll see if it's fun but does look good to me so far.

 

[Safehold]

I think one of the big issues with Moo 3 was a design change late in the development of the game. It sounded like it was pushed /forced by the publisher and after that the game was rushed out the door. Now the original design if I recall was sort of Distant Worldsish so had they kept their vision perhaps people would still hate it. At least Stellaris has one vision, we'll see if it's fun but does look good to me so far.

Moo3 had developer over extension. 3 different taxation rates, 3 layers for the AI to handle and the human to figure out why it was changing.

That's just one of the complexities. If wikipedia had a community for Moo3 back then, it might have gotten easier, but a manual wasn't enough at the time.

4x demographics do not want innovative game designs. Even though that's actually what the genre needs to feel like Moo2.

Moo2 was a combination of some strategic layers with a solid turn based tactical combat simulator. Plus some city building pops and what not. And a system akin to the Civ research line. Just a jumbo full of elements from other genres.

Thea combines card tactical fights with a strategy/adventure/rpg village game. Even if it isn't 4x, the 4x was just a marketing label it doesn't tell people how to develop a game like that. So I think games like Thea are replicating the thought process that created Master of Magic and Master of Orion, instead of merely trying to clone itself after a 4x label.

Moo3 was pretty fun, combat wise, up until after the mid game. Then the usual 4x micromanagement became an issue in larger galaxies. It still felt pretty smooth compared to late games of other 4x games at the time.

The best thing going for Stellaris is that I have heard no mention of Moo1 or 2 or MoM in their marketing or streams at all. And that's a very very good thing.

 

[ponasozis]

Spore. It was my first true gaming disappointment. So much hype, so many lies. I even bought the Galactic Edition; my first gaming purchase with my own money without relying on the parents. I've since had many disappointments from EA, but that betrayal will always hold a special place. Never before nor ever since, has so much potential been so squandered.

am i the only one here who still loved spore

its still best evolution game there is by far
and i spend hundreds of hours playing it even trough space era was mediocre

I notice Spore pop up here a couple of times, but I would like to point something out: The Spore Space Stage was actually a well developed entity in its own right, with the rest of the game sort of like an unrequested prequel to the meat of the game. Also, a lot of the ideas and concepts implemented in Stellaris remind me a LOT of Spore's space stage. The emphasis on exploration, the uplifting of other races, and overall fine details of the universe seem to have a bit of a resemblance. Obviously Spore is not as detailed as Stellaris, but the freedom of it has me playing it as the closest space game out there to Stellaris that exists at the current time.


For notorious failures:

-Any of the Total War franchise after Rome: Total War.
-Anything by Molyneaux

wat
how dare you
medieval 2 with kingdoms was even better then rome by far not to mention the amazing modding community it created


oh and

 

[hjarg]

4x demographics do not want innovative game designs. Even though that's actually what the genre needs to feel like Moo2.

I'm part of the 4x demographics and i want innovation! I just prefer it not to come bundled in a buggy mess and want to understand what i'm doing.

 

[208]

Honorable mention: Skyrim

Took out everything enjoyable from Oblivion.

I wouldn't call Skyrim a bad game, or even that I was disappointed by it - I just found myself profoundly indifferent to it. I think I barely got past the first little village. Waste of money for me, but since I wasn't hyped about it in the first place, I can't say I was truly disappointed.

Actual disappointments:

Firefall. Fell in love with this game during their long beta phase, it was a self-directed sandbox shooter with RPG elements, then just before launch they got cold feet and turned it into a level- and resource-grinding chore.

Shadowrun Chronicles (formerly known as Shadowrun Online). I'm a huge fan of the Shadowrun IP, I backed this game on Kickstarter to the tune of $100, but the vision of it simply proved (IMO) beyond the capabilities of the team behind it. It ended up a fairly simple tactical turn-based game with zero RP, and a relatively short storyline. I did actually enjoy it for what it was at launch, the multiplayer co-op was fun (when you could find a team that wasn't going to overwhelm every mission with their maxed out characters), even with the limited content, but their post-release balance pass was (again, IMO) an epic failure - rather than mustering the courage to limit Karma and slap down the OP builds (which were possible because you could - unintended by the developers - grind hundreds/thousands of Karma to train *every skill tree* and pick up all the stacking passives) they released repeatable "end-game" content that *required* those OP builds. That rewarded you with OP gear. This was such a turn-off for me that I stopped playing altogether and couldn't muster the will to revisit it even after they added more content (that I had already paid for).

 

[Voidlord]

For me Endless Space was a bit of a letdown. Sure I enjoyed it but it just felt it was a bit shallow.

I am half expecting Faycron to jump into this thread and declare that MoO3 was a masterpiece and we are all idiots for not seeing it