Is it me or are the Spanish National Ideas underwhelming?

[Reman]

Top 5 for what, precisely?

That's always the question.

Yeah, this is exactly right. If you specifically want an RP campaign to build troops that are as strong as possible, then Spain's ideas are pretty good. If you're looking at power more generally, though, EU4 is a game that's far more focused on expansion and consolidation than troop quality. As such, things like core cost reduction are *vastly* more powerful than military bonuses in the long and medium term. Viewed through this lens, Spanish ideas (and Castilian ideas, for that matter) are actually fairly weak compared to Italian, Andalusian, or even Thomond ideas.

 

[dm99]

The ideas of Castile are more tied to the initial period of the game, the ideas of Spain are more significant for the middle and beyond. The problem is different, Castille has the wildest mana deficit. Usually in Italy, by the 11th level of technology, I completed the entire line of national ideas, but here everything will be very sad. Perhaps it is simply better to delay the formation of Spain. Moreover, there is a shortage of governing capacity.

 

[Twoflower]

The problem is different, Castille has the wildest mana deficit. Usually in Italy, by the 11th level of technology, I completed the entire line of national ideas, but here everything will be very sad. Perhaps it is simply better to delay the formation of Spain. Moreover, there is a shortage of governing capacity.

Only if you do not disinherit Enrique, I think. (or lack the required DLC for that...)

 

[currylambchop]

Yeah, this is exactly right. If you specifically want an RP campaign to build troops that are as strong as possible, then Spain's ideas are pretty good. If you're looking at power more generally, though, EU4 is a game that's far more focused on expansion and consolidation than troop quality. As such, things like core cost reduction are *vastly* more powerful than military bonuses in the long and medium term. Viewed through this lens, Spanish ideas (and Castilian ideas, for that matter) are actually fairly weak compared to Italian, Andalusian, or even Thomond ideas.

Most tags don't have core cost reduction so Spain is better than most tags, unless you are going for world conquest. Though Andalusia is outright better in most if not all aspects, even colonising

 

[Vapiritapiri]

You'd in fact be hard pressed to find countries with more potent military ideas than Spain. Prussia and Poland are the only ones, and non-Polish Prussia starts don't have the economic base of Spain.

Is doing prussia as poland any good?

 

[Chippings]

It could be argued that these decrees could in EU4 game terms be represented as Castile "integrating" Aragon and "tag-switching" to Spain. It is absolutely baffling how the documents that ended the separate legal identity of the kingdoms are a "Castilian" and not a "Spanish" idea.

Castile had the need to unify the kingdoms, hence had the idea of Nueva Planta. Castile effectively applied that idea, and its resultant entity benefitted from that but did not need that idea any longer. The idea has more significance to Castile that needed and created them, rather than the country it became after applying the idea.

As an analogy: I have to cross a river. I learn how to build a bridge. I build the bridge. After I cross the bridge am I still thinking about building bridges? Probably not, especially if there aren't any more rivers to cross.

 

[dm99]

Only if you do not disinherit Enrique, I think. (or lack the required DLC for that...)

It all starts with Juan II, with attributes 1-1-2. There is no money for advisors. Many cheap provinces, some of which are constantly pillaged by Tunisia, Morocco and others. This leads to devastation and the impossibility of prosperity.

The Renaissance is taking a very long time. The first mission to conquer Andalusia is possible, but requires mana, and besides, it cannot be converted. Conversion through events is possible, but is associated with a loss of stability. Stability recover requires mana. If you do not restore, then disaster begins.

There is a strong tool like Orders, but there is absolutely not enough mana. Gold mine gives income, but increases inflation, which has no mana to reduce.

Mana is needed for technology and ideas, and quickly. If you are late, then everything will be bad. It is necessary to quickly begin colonization, otherwise the Portuguese will interfere very much. They already interfere, because they have a bunch of bonuses that allow them to build colonies 2 times faster. AI usually fails. Which leads to completely wild results, like French Brazil or the all-English Caribbean. If the second is still understandable, then the first is beyond reason.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but extremely tedious. Any accidental spending of mana can result in failure. That is what is most stressful. Especially after Italy, where I didn't know what to do with it.

 

[klingonadmiral]

Yeah, this is exactly right. If you specifically want an RP campaign to build troops that are as strong as possible, then Spain's ideas are pretty good. If you're looking at power more generally, though, EU4 is a game that's far more focused on expansion and consolidation than troop quality.

Here I strongly disagree with. In the end EU4 is supposed to be fun, and so it heavily depends on the person in front of the screen what a country should do. Some might want to endlessly blob, others might want to have the most powerful troops in existence, some might want to spread their country's religion far and wide.

Thus the best tags are the most flexible, as they allow the player to shape them into whatever they want.

And Spain does do well at all these things. Sure, no CCR in their ideas, but either PUs on half of Europe (Aragon through event, Portugal, Naples and Austria through missions, conditional PU on Great Britain/England through missions) or claims on the entire Mediterranean basin if formed by Aragon. Perm claims are equivalent to -25% CCR on an unclaimed province, so for a significant period Aragon-formed Spain actually outcompetes Thomond.

 

[ianchen12345]

Keep Castilian ideas if you want to go for One Faith. Keep Spanish ideas if you want your army to be better.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Thus the best tags are the most flexible, as they allow the player to shape them into whatever they want.

Not necessarily, no. The best tag under this metric is the one that allows the player to do the most of what that player wants to do.

If the player wants to stay below 30 provinces and be as strong as possible, Spain is definitely not the best. If the player wants to WC as fast as possible, Spain is definitely not the best. Even if Spain is more flexible than nations specialized to either of those things.

"Best" will shift depending on the assumptions/what you are trying to accomplish. If you want to larp as Mansa Musa, both Spain and hordes are complete trash and you should pick Mali.

 

[jamal bakr]

Sure spain doesn't have CCR, but it does have mission based PUs on Great Britain, all of Iberia, Naples, and Austria, so getting western europe for free outside of france is a pretty nice consolation prize. Not to mention Burgundian shenangians. You don't get to PU Britain or Austria as Castile. Simple as.

Looks like they are giving Portugal a buff as well. Going from 10% artillery fire to + 1 artillery fire, 10% free infantry ability. Nice, getting into indian minor range.

If they nerf deep sea attrition I will be ecstatic.

 

[Antonius66]

Can I just say that I feel like an idiot after playing Castile for like 1000 hours and after finally completing a WC a while back, I never ever once changed to Spanish NI from the Castilian ones after forming Spain. Never paid attention and man was I missing out.

 

[LastSalian]

I am playing a game as Castile into Spain to play the Colonial Game to test out the 1.33beta.

I formed Spain diplomatically and had the chance to change NI's and did so, but I think the new NI's are worse than the Castilian ones which I think were based on "Historical" Spain in the first place.

What does the forum think of the Spanish Ideas?

They are worse for a colonial game, yes; better if going for WC.

 

[Ferdinand_Bardamu]

Here I strongly disagree with. In the end EU4 is supposed to be fun, and so it heavily depends on the person in front of the screen what a country should do. Some might want to endlessly blob, others might want to have the most powerful troops in existence, some might want to spread their country's religion far and wide.

Thus the best tags are the most flexible, as they allow the player to shape them into whatever they want.

And Spain does do well at all these things. Sure, no CCR in their ideas, but either PUs on half of Europe (Aragon through event, Portugal, Naples and Austria through missions, conditional PU on Great Britain/England through missions) or claims on the entire Mediterranean basin if formed by Aragon. Perm claims are equivalent to -25% CCR on an unclaimed province, so for a significant period Aragon-formed Spain actually outcompetes Thomond.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Spain's PU on Austria/GB is dependent on them getting the Lowlands (and ensuring they are Catholic).

My success rate of getting the Burgundian Inheritance as Castile is remarkably low, given I also have to prevent them dying to either France or Austria.

In my opinion, Great Britain, Spain and France are underrated for mass blobbing. Great Britain went on to have the largest Empire the world has seen shortly after the game's time period. Spain, whilst in game terms 'colonised', they actually conquered a fair bit. And France I think is a bit self explanatory.

Italy gets CCR. Austria gets Admin Efficiency and CCR. Russia gets CCR and Admin Efficiency. Germany gets a lot of Admin Efficiency. Ignoring also the Ottomans, Hordes, Mughals who all have massive CCR and/or Admin Efficiency bonuses.

I think the traditional Western European powers are actually pretty 'bleh' in terms of their national ideas. France/Spain benefit from powerful armies which is nice, Spain have arguably the best military idea in the game.

Great Britain at least gets Governing Capacity + Diplo Annexation Cost to compensate for paper weak army and several naval ideas in a game in which the navy means nothing.

 

[yyrkroon]

Is doing prussia as poland any good?

Some say it is the best and easiest Prussia, and then there are some that will argue that Poland's military ideas are already equal to or better than Prussian ones, so going Poland->Prussia is a waste.