Is it just me, or does France play too defensively?

[kacpe3]

In most of my games England just gives France Maine, and France doesn't do anything after it! They aren't declaring any wars, not against England, not against Burgundy. In the meanwhile England gets whole of Britain, and comes 100 years later and takes Paris and some other provinces.

Also, after they pick exploration they really like having whole army in America, but that's not only France's issue.

Have you got similar thoughts? Note: I'm playing mostly on normal.

 

[Metroidkirby]

Yes, AI is clearly not as aggressive as it could be.

 

[Jaapje]

It's not just a problem with France. The legendary "Ottoman's don't reach historical borders" argument is caused by the same AI behaviour. I saw a severely blobbed Ottomans spare a Serbia allied to a OPM Bosnia and guaranteed by a reduced Hungary for over a century. Eventually it was annexed by Hungary. Similarly it spared several very weak states in Africa and Asia. You can give their infantry 80 pips and they'd still be waaay to passive compared to their strength.

I think the AI overestimates enemy strength by a large margin. Between condottieri, enforce peace, militairy ideas and intervene wars have never been more uncertain. Perhaps the AI always considers worst case scenario's?

 

[The-Doc]

Try kicking up the aggressiveness?

 

[kacpe3]

Also, my only DLC is Common Sense, so there are no Condottieri, no intervening in wars, and AI still isn't aggresive :/.

 

[Sfan]

The AI has always been more passive than the player and less passive than in real history, there is nothing you can do to balance this unfortunately.

 

[Heindrich]

The AI is also very inconsistent. In my England game the world shaped up pretty historically accurate. The Ottomans conquered the Byzantines in the 1450s and gradually ate Mesopotamia and Eygpt by ~1600. Castille formed Spain and built a colonial empire, Poland formed the PLC and were even more successful than historically, beating Russia and the Ottomans in some 1500s wars. Russia formed despite the PLC setback and Austria got the usual PU over Hungary and threw its weight around in Europe so much that I had to rush a war to prevent him grabbing Burgandy as well.

In my current Brandenburg game however, the Ottomans haven't even taken Constantinope by 1463 (or wiped out the Anatolian minors), Castille rejected the Iberian Wedding and Poland rejected the union over Lithuania...

 

[bbqftw]

If every country played to max aggression pretty much every OPM start would be impossible.

 

[kacpe3]

I'm not saying max aggression, but when France isn't declaring any wars for 100 years something is not ok.

 

[Hootieleece]

@kacpe3: Did you check their debt levels? Also check the Alliances of potential targets? Also check their Allies Debt levels?

If no one is going to help them, why would they declare a war they think they will lose........

How often does a player declare a war they are not certain to win?

 

[Magnificent Genius]

The AI has always been more passive than the player and less passive than in real history, there is nothing you can do to balance this unfortunately.

Yes, but the AI is considerably more passive this patch than I can ever recall.

 

[Dominion]

France is a bad joke in general. If AI behavior is not specialized but general, it doesn't fit France at all and if certain countries have a certain behavior (which I suspect) then it's a disgrace someone wasted time on it.

- They switch to threatened way earlier than other nations
- Their army movement is irrational
- The stuck armies bug still exists and is almost exclusively seen in France
- They can be tricked into running in circles, something almost no other nations is capable of
- They declare wars overseas without a strong colony and before shipping armies over (Spain/Portugal have weak enemies, England has stronger colonies and can afford that behavior)
- The co-belligerent bug still exists, wrecking them in half the games

On top of that they declare on England way too often without taking enough land. They fight it like any other nation which means

Not enough WS available > wait until "length of war" is sufficient > take minimal amount of provinces

Heck, if you want to you can just take all of Englands forts on the mainland. Leads to England and France being at war forever.
Almost literally.
Only thing interrupting them is the truce timer after their white peace.


If they declare fewer wars in your games (or in general, I haven't watched them in a while), then good for them.
They are the single worst nation when it comes to war due to their position and bugs that still haven't been fixed.

They should just remove every cb from them and have them sit around as an Ottoman ally from 1444 'til 1821.

 

[bbqftw]

just give them historical rival with Savoy and all the italians, that seems to have worked for certain other areas of the world

 

[Dominion]

just give them historical rival with Savoy and all the italians, that seems to have worked for certain other areas of the world

With the co-belligerent bug still in the game? Do you want them to get removed pre-1500?

 

[bbqftw]

What bug?

That they are bad at assessing emperor strength?

Just give them historical rival along with the event that gives shadow kingdom.

(this is a bit tongue in cheek - on the other hand I typically play VH and AI aggression is a lot more logical there)

 

[Dominion]

Nah, nobody is bad at assessing strength. That's a general bug.

For every DoW the AI takes all standing forces of their target plus allies who are willing to join as one entity. Not calcing in distance etc., but that's a different story.

Either way, a co-belligerent's allies aren't counted in.

Same problem shows up when they contest a PU.


Fun way to abuse this would be pissing off everyone around you, then becoming a vassal of someone with strong allies, just to get released as part of the peacedeal.

I absolutely need to try this in my next game. Does the AI declare on vassals too or always on their overlord?

 

[bbqftw]

I dont think a subject can be coalitioned if that's what you are asking..

 

[Dominion]

Wouldn't need a coalition when they declare on vassals.

Conquering provinces of interest, sending insults, etc. works fine to provoke a DoW.

Now, if they do not declare on subjects, but on overlords only, they would get the correct value (overlord + allies).

But if they declare on subjects too they calculate it incorrectly (subject+overlord) at which point all I need to do is lower army maintenance and watch them run into an alliance three times their strength.

Don't know if they declare on subjects though because AI subjects rarely anger anyone. Never seen it happening.

 

[puddingkip]

Wouldn't need a coalition when they declare on vassals.

Conquering provinces of interest, sending insults, etc. works fine to provoke a DoW.

Now, if they do not declare on subjects, but on overlords only, they would get the correct value (overlord + allies).

But if they declare on subjects too they calculate it incorrectly (subject+overlord) at which point all I need to do is lower army maintenance and watch them run into an alliance three times their strength.

Don't know if they declare on subjects though because AI subjects rarely anger anyone. Never seen it happening.

The AI does declare on subjects, I've had it happen to me as overlord (though never as subject). The standard no-cb vassalise Byz strat leaves Byz getting declared on by the Ottos if you aren't particularly strong like Ferrara. It's so funny you're likely to still be a HRE member and subjects of HRE members still get the emperor called in. And all his allies.

 

[bbqftw]

yeah, this is the most amusing one I've seen.

Palatinate declares on Baden, who is a vassal to Alsace, who is a vassal to me, who is allied to France and Bohemia.