It does. The Ottomans vital interest southern Italy every game unless Mehmed is a Diplomat or something.
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Is it just me or are the Ottomans completely insane in 1.33?
- Thread starter durbal
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I’ve had eu4 since Leviathan, I have never beaten the ottomans. I’ve lost land and subjects thanks to them several times.
Played about a dozen games so far and I've never seen them take any land in southern Italy. A lot of times they don't even take Epirus despite continually declaring war on it.
Regardless, Papal States isn't exactly a hard start and you're not at any real risk of the Ottomans war dec'ing you before 1550 anyway. You have 100 years to take over Italy and whatever else you want with relative ease and even then can just ally France or Spain and the Ottos will never bother you.
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Its a 1/5th of games I'd say
I have many memories of ottoman vienna and naples in pre golden century patches
Not so much scripted as thats what weighting is
Same culture group
Same religion
Same trade node or 1 province up or downstream
What tags do you play as, how long does it take you to go from kingdom to empire rank
I wouldn't want the Ottomans any easier, I like them being a tough opponent. It's not like it's impossible. My current game as The Knights I was able to beat them and I didn't even prevent them from conquering Constantinople (they took it while I was sieging Byzantium's southern provinces).
But anyway, are they more powerful in 1.33? Yes. Is the situation described in the OP new in 1.33? No. The advice for beating the Ottomans has always been either attack them early before they can build up their power base or wait until lategame when their pips get worse and you get stronger. Nothing has changed in that regard. Certainly the worst possible time to attack them is after they clean up Byzantium, Albania, and Anatolia but they still have Guns of Urban, so 1470s-1510s.
One thing that makes them easier in 1.33 I've noticed is the way the AI prioritizes targets. If you can call in big allies like PLC and Austria they'll often try to siege down your allies instead of defending their territory. That's how I beat them during the 1520s in my Burgundy game.
1. Get naval superiority by building galleys.
2. Gather vassals and allies. I vassalized Wallachia and Byzantium. I called in Austria and Hungary.
3. Declare when they're busy fighting in the east. For me they were fighting Qara Qoyunlu.
4. Take Konstaniyye and Gelibolu asap to prevent them from crossing the straight.
5. Siege Balkans. Defeat their navy with the help of Byzantium.
6. Let them go around the Black Sea and when they do, cross straight and siege Anatolia.
7. 80+% warscore without even defeating their armies.
2. Gather vassals and allies. I vassalized Wallachia and Byzantium. I called in Austria and Hungary.
3. Declare when they're busy fighting in the east. For me they were fighting Qara Qoyunlu.
4. Take Konstaniyye and Gelibolu asap to prevent them from crossing the straight.
5. Siege Balkans. Defeat their navy with the help of Byzantium.
6. Let them go around the Black Sea and when they do, cross straight and siege Anatolia.
7. 80+% warscore without even defeating their armies.
But anyway, are they more powerful in 1.33? Yes. Is the situation described in the OP new in 1.33? No. The advice for beating the Ottomans has always been either attack them early before they can build up their power base or wait until lategame when their pips get worse and you get stronger. Nothing has changed in that regard. Certainly the worst possible time to attack them is after they clean up Byzantium, Albania, and Anatolia but they still have Guns of Urban, so 1470s-1510s.
One thing that makes them easier in 1.33 I've noticed is the way the AI prioritizes targets. If you can call in big allies like PLC and Austria they'll often try to siege down your allies instead of defending their territory. That's how I beat them during the 1520s in my Burgundy game.
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The one thing people are not mentioning are unit pips, since non morale pips got buffed, the Ottoman armies are a lot stronger early, while they are supposed to fall of, they are able to snowball quite effectively to mitigate the pip difference.
I've played austria games (vh + xorme ai) where the first 50 years after getting border with them was just loss management(even while using Eastern troops through Hungary and outnumbering around 2 to 1). But after 1550 I was easily crushing them, because their units have fallen off, and they didn't win hard enough. It's one of the more entertaining playthroughs, but the fact that you are bound to win by default if you survive sucks.
Honestly, not sure what the solution is other then removing pip discrepancies. Fingers crossed for eu5.
I've played austria games (vh + xorme ai) where the first 50 years after getting border with them was just loss management(even while using Eastern troops through Hungary and outnumbering around 2 to 1). But after 1550 I was easily crushing them, because their units have fallen off, and they didn't win hard enough. It's one of the more entertaining playthroughs, but the fact that you are bound to win by default if you survive sucks.
Honestly, not sure what the solution is other then removing pip discrepancies. Fingers crossed for eu5.
I agree, I also wouldn't want the Ottomans any easier, the challenge them being strong in general is fine by me. I also agree with your strategy 100% but what did not work for me with this exact approach were my allies:
I had two games as Knights, both times the Ottomans were busy in the east, their manpower was down to something like 3 to 4k, I had naval superiority and my allies started conquering / sieging the balkans (first game allied to Austria, Papal States, Venice; second game allied to Austria + vassal Hungary, Lithuania, own vassal Byzantium; both times outnumbering +full manpower!), but when the Ottomans arrived (I didn't manage to siege down the straits fast enough because of coastal landing and attrition bringing down my army from 11 to under 9k), they picked them apart one by one. My allies were in separate smaller stacks (max 18k, most 8-12k), never merging, always avoiding battles / fleeing, breaking off sieges, wouldn't join battles (though that would have resulted in superiority in numbers). There are already some threads describing this phenomenon, where allies won't help in any significant way if they come to the conclusion that they would loose the battle on their own, they simply ignore the possibility of combined strength.
I read somewhere that it might confuse the AI if you set targets, that are behind forts, meaning "not reachable" for the AI, so they act uncoordinated. I will try to select bordering provinces first to draw the allies closer together, but I don't have much hope this might help.
Another point was, that the Ottomans were at military tech 5 (me as well), while whole Europe was still at 4 although renaissance was already wide spread. This might have supported the AIs calculation to better not engage the Ottomans armies, but still, while outnumbering the Ottomans, all my allies wouldn't achieve anything useful. Needless to say while fighting all these small stacks, the Ottomans grew in numbers (both with new regiments and increasing manpower).
EDIT: Todays Dev Diary talks about "allied AI behavior" as one of their gameplay topics they might work on, since "now the AI acts on its own interests, which may not be the player’s". So eventually the described phenomenon could not be wad.
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England wins most of the time in my games bruh
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I’ve lost wars to them as Persia (from Afghanistan), Russia (Muscovy) and Austria.
Did you have full burgundian inheritance + bohemia + full Hungary as Austria?
I had similar problems whenever the Ottomans actually engaged in a battle. Especially when they had tech 5 first, there was nothing I could do my troops would just melt. That's why the strait is so important. It allows you to delay them until you have the Balkans controlled and your allies can all tech up.
As far as getting your allies to cooperate, my strategy is to break off 1 regiment from my main stack, set it to allow attach, and wait. Your vassals should attach and usually you'll get an allied stack as well. This gives you a whole bunch of troops that you can control but aren't using your manpower pool.
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I think you guys are missing the point.
Everyone knows how to beat the Ottomans in 1444. The point is how ridiculous they become if you don't kneecap them early (either because you're playing far away or are just too small).
Everyone knows how to beat the Ottomans in 1444. The point is how ridiculous they become if you don't kneecap them early (either because you're playing far away or are just too small).
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if your playing far away from the ottomans theres no pressure to engage them until youre comfortable enough to and by the late game the ottomans are one of the easier blobbing powers to fight. give me ottomans late game anyday over russia with the massive provinces which take forever to navigate or any of the colonisers which usually have an alliance network amongst themselves as well as the colonial nations depriving you of a lot of warscore unless youre willing to ferry troops across and be fighting across multiple continents
the ottomans in comparison very rarely have any powerful allies, no longer have pip advantage and aside from the straits dont really have any tactical advantage to utilize. its usually just a grindy war, the first of which will absorb a fair bit of manpower. fighting the ottomans in 1444 is a lot more fun and requires more thinking on behalf of the player than any late game ottoman war ever will
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I am in the middle of my Baltic Crusader campaign, its around 1550 and I already won one huge war against them (they are beast but expanded only into balkans, Austria is holding Hungarian lands intact, Turkish minors are alive and allied to Ottos, Mamluks are going strong) and I was able to take some polish provinces from them - the only reason they took half of Ruthenia is because I was destroying PLC from the beginning).
They are strong though, they took innovative+quality while I took quantity+economic, even me being 1 mil tech ahead and with higher morale and discipline wasnt enough to beat their armies but its doable to win wars with some allies and distraction, for next war ill try to ally Mamluks and with southern front I should be able to beat them for good.
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Anyone would become strong in their position, put a custom nation in their place and you'll see them equally expand quickly
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Ugh. Is this really fine? (Hint: No.)
I dont expect paradox to fix this after so many years but yeah. Last game was Aragorn and in the 5th war of me beating them, they kept showing up with 200k+ troops.
They are too strong in general, there is no Persia ever that challenges them like happened historically. Worst of all, they are stupid stable and never face any real rebels. Only worthless particularists that help more than hinder them when you carpet occupy them. You can take all their starting territory and the Ottos keep functioning. Most animals die when their head gets cut off, the Ottomans, less so.
Wish me luck on the Egypt achi, I have a feeling its going to get bloody.
I dont expect paradox to fix this after so many years but yeah. Last game was Aragorn and in the 5th war of me beating them, they kept showing up with 200k+ troops.
They are too strong in general, there is no Persia ever that challenges them like happened historically. Worst of all, they are stupid stable and never face any real rebels. Only worthless particularists that help more than hinder them when you carpet occupy them. You can take all their starting territory and the Ottos keep functioning. Most animals die when their head gets cut off, the Ottomans, less so.
Wish me luck on the Egypt achi, I have a feeling its going to get bloody.
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Ottomans in the 1st Age is a beast once they get their siege bonus. By the 2nd Age their manpower and FL is probably the highest in Europe. So it makes for a terrifying rival to fight.
However I've also noticed that they tend to delete their forts in Balkans and Europe once they finish a long war. Its like the AI trying to balance their budget and prefers keeping an army at FL, rather than mothballing their forts.
However I've also noticed that they tend to delete their forts in Balkans and Europe once they finish a long war. Its like the AI trying to balance their budget and prefers keeping an army at FL, rather than mothballing their forts.
Without missions and age ability it would be slower. Start the game in non ironman and integrate Ottomans into the Byzantium, event with missions Byzantium usually would own Balkans, Anatolia, Syria and maybe parts of starting QQ territory but nothing more
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