Is it intended for xenophobe empires to automatically enslave pops they gained via migration?

[wickermoon]

So I'm currently playing an authoritarian, xenophobe empire with syncretic evolution. Now, I'm totally all for enslaving those dimwitted space orc brutes, but I found it odd that any species other than my main species is set to slavery, even though I gained them via migration treaties. Is that intended? It doesn't feel right, that's why I'm asking.

 

[stumason]

You can change that in the species screen - you're obviously set to default slavery, but you should be able to use residence and stratified as an authoritarian xenophobe.

 

[Secret Master]

Perhaps a better question is this:

Why in the name of the Worm (what was, will be) are POPs migrating to xenophobic empires that have set their policy to enslave those POPs?

Now, migrating to a xenophobic empire might make sense if your species is set to residence or full citizenship, but why move to an empire via normal migration when you will just be enslaved? Hell, the xenophobes could literally sell all the migrating POPs back to the original empire at a tidy profit just for the evil lulz.

 

[Foefaller]

Perhaps a better question is this:

Why in the name of the Worm (what was, will be) are POPs migrating to xenophobic empires that have set their policy to enslave those POPs?

Now, migrating to a xenophobic empire might make sense if your species is set to residence or full citizenship, but why move to an empire via normal migration when you will just be enslaved? Hell, the xenophobes could literally sell all the migrating POPs back to the original empire at a tidy profit just for the evil lulz.

Remittances?

There were (and are) RW times and places where migrant workers are treated basically as slaves (as in, passports taken, forced to live in &$^%# compounds and unable to leave until their contract is up), but still immigrate because they can send the money they make back home to their families.

 

[Secret Master]

unable to leave until their contract is up

Yeah, but we don't have indentured servitude in Stellaris. It's either slavery or not slavery. It's never "slavery for some time, then you are good and are free."

EDIT: It also occurs to me that the remittances form of labor only works when you would earn more in the new empire than the old one.

That can't happen in Stellaris with slavery enabled, as the consumer goods reduction makes slavery a lower paying occupation than anything else in the game. You would be enslaving yourself to pay your family less than if you took a job in your home empire.

 

[Foefaller]

Yeah, but we don't have indentured servitude in Stellaris. It's either slavery or not slavery. It's never "slavery for some time, then you are good and are free."

EDIT: It also occurs to me that the remittances form of labor only works when you would earn more in the new empire than the old one.

That can't happen in Stellaris with slavery enabled, as the consumer goods reduction makes slavery a lower paying occupation than anything else in the game. You would be enslaving yourself to pay your family less than if you took a job in your home empire.

Except... Indentured Servitude is exactly what the slaver civic is called for Megacorps...and you could always RP it as a transient population of "slaves" not a permanent one.

As for CG cost... unemployment? Even a planet will "full" employment would still have some people who are unemployed. Because true full employment, where every single working-age person has a job, is a practical impossibility, and likely a literal one for all but the most regimented societies.

 

[RobertIain]

I'm equally baffled how it is that native, pre-sapient races on worlds that computer empires occupy are being 'displaced' as refugees onto my planets... I know my empire has 'all refugees welcomed' as a policy, but f they don't have space travel, how are they even getting here? Stowaways in such large numbers (had four loads of them arrive in a recent game!) seems an unlikely option... are their new overlords loading them into containers and shipping them on to the neighbours?

 

[TartarosHero]

I'm equally baffled how it is that native, pre-sapient races on worlds that computer empires occupy are being 'displaced' as refugees onto my planets... I know my empire has 'all refugees welcomed' as a policy, but f they don't have space travel, how are they even getting here? Stowaways in such large numbers (had four loads of them arrive in a recent game!) seems an unlikely option... are their new overlords loading them into containers and shipping them on to the neighbours?

Space PETA?

 

[Secret Master]

Except... Indentured Servitude is exactly what the slaver civic is called for Megacorps...and you could always RP it as a transient population of "slaves" not a permanent one.

As for CG cost... unemployment? Even a planet will "full" employment would still have some people who are unemployed. Because true full employment, where every single working-age person has a job, is a practical impossibility, and likely a literal one for all but the most regimented societies.

That's a good point.

Except that the tooltip for that civic describes something that is not indentured servitude. It describes a permanent state of slavery. So, while it's called Indentured Servitude, it's really just corporate double talk to make you feel good. (which makes sense, given the context)

 

[Mavkiel]

Perhaps a better question is this:

Why in the name of the Worm (what was, will be) are POPs migrating to xenophobic empires that have set their policy to enslave those POPs?

Now, migrating to a xenophobic empire might make sense if your species is set to residence or full citizenship, but why move to an empire via normal migration when you will just be enslaved? Hell, the xenophobes could literally sell all the migrating POPs back to the original empire at a tidy profit just for the evil lulz.

Real life example, people fleeing North Korea into China. Look into the stories of how folks are treated. Though if you are easily upset, I'd recommend not doing it. China also has the policy of shipping those that catch official attention back to North Korea. It's not exactly selling them back, but fairly darn close.

 

[Adolf - Finite War]

Well it's more like african americans migrating back to africa deciding that south america during the apartheid era is the perfect place and time for that decision and that doesn't even come close to what stellaris space empires can do with their slaves - breed them on industrial scale, put control chips in their brains, customize them like sims, torture them for fun, let them fight each other, or just use them as sex toys.

Pops should only end up in xenophobic empires by accident.

 

[kgptzac]

I remember seeing pops immigrate to an empire that would enslave them is a bug or a design flaw.

 

[Madzai]

I remember seeing pops immigrate to an empire that would enslave them is a bug or a design flaw.

The whole migration system that magically grow new Pops, instead of actually moving them is a "design flaw".

 

[wickermoon]

You can change that in the species screen - you're obviously set to default slavery, but you should be able to use residence and stratified as an authoritarian xenophobe.

I can change the setting per species, yes. But is there a setting for the default behaviour somewhere? I mean, yes, apparently I'm set to default slavery, but I would very much like to change that default behaviour. Is there any way to change that?

 

[PirateJack]

The whole migration system that magically grow new Pops, instead of actually moving them is a "design flaw".

Not really. Migration in this game slows your growth on your home planet/other planets (to the point where your homeworld can begin shrinking if you're not careful in the early game) so it's just skimming off the top more than making POPs appear out of thin air.

 

[Madzai]

Not really. Migration in this game slows your growth on your home planet/other planets (to the point where your homeworld can begin shrinking if you're not careful in the early game) so it's just skimming off the top more than making POPs appear out of thin air.

It's just giving % growth and the type of possible species to grow, so a species with a single Pop can start growing on multiply planets and and in no time take over a lot of planets. So yes, they are appearing out of thin air. In sedentary emigrating Pops vanish in thin air. Also "Migrating" species not carrying over their strata(and it also never cause the shortage of high-tier strata).

 

[Piotrzeci]

I am pretty sure xenophobes were not able to have migration treaties. I don't know why they can now. It's not like they want aliens to come into their borders nor give their people away.

 

[stumason]

I can change the setting per species, yes. But is there a setting for the default behaviour somewhere? I mean, yes, apparently I'm set to default slavery, but I would very much like to change that default behaviour. Is there any way to change that?

Yes - on the top of the species page is a big button marked "default rights" or some such. Click that, set your rights to what you want and any subsequent species joining your empire will use those rights. You can also use the button "restore defaults" to enable those rights on all non-founder pops in your empire.

 

[wickermoon]

Yes - on the top of the species page is a big button marked "default rights" or some such. Click that, set your rights to what you want and any subsequent species joining your empire will use those rights. You can also use the button "restore defaults" to enable those rights on all non-founder pops in your empire.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. :3

 

[BigPoppa1111]

So are migration treaties worth it? Do you "lose" more to other empires than you "gain"? I can't tell whether I should allow them or not for my empire if I want to maximize pop growth.