Is it crysis of creativity?

[Mortheim]

So, with new DD we see ANOTHER feautre (that looks like line) with cap of 100. Now with even more absurd bonuses and flawed mechanics.
First, this bonus benefits states with some bonuses to rulers much more than others. Prussia, Ottomans and Mamluks are going nuts, while other pray for good enough roll. Thou i like that it helps republics and tall gameplay.
Second, it is tied to luck. You got good ruler - YAY, you can try to outtech others. Bad rulers - gg.
Third, the whole implementation and concept is lazy. Like, what it REALLY adds to gameplay? Additional power cost discount? No real need. Cool interesting interactions between advanced and less advanced countries? Not at all. You NEED TO PRESS TECHNOLOGY RIGHT NOW SO NO ONE WOULD BE FASTER THAN YOU. Wow. Innovative. I would be honest - i liked professionalism. It adds something to aim for in long run and forces you to think how to distribute your resources.
Fourth, i don't know how is this tied to anglican church and i doubt that it has any foundation behind it. Thou people who know English history can correct me.
Fifth, the absurdity of the bonus. All power cost discount of 10%. So, it is somewhat snowballing bonus. Yes, it will take long time to reach, but then, again, why would you need it? Late game is boring and you can play it either if you have long time goal, or you are...egh...well...trying WC i guess?

Maybe you should add something that makes late game more interesting? Not something that will help you in late game.
Your thoughts?

Some ideas:
Innovativeness should be floating bonus based on different factors (from most important to least important):
1) what percent of your income goes to advisors?
2) do you have innovative idea group?
3) do you have and the number of universities?
4) do your ruler has corresponding trait?
5) do you have innovativenes and/or plutocratic ideas?
6) any modifiers tied to culture, advisors or reforms?
7) what religion do you have? how stong is patriarch authority (thou PA need rework BADLY) and piety?
8) do you have inquisitor advisor?
9) do you have philosopher advisor or natural scientist?

So, game checks those conditions and gives you bonus toward idea, tech, institution embrace cost and speed, chance of good events tied to science, also - better heirs (you teach them better lol).
There is also can be bonus to "conservatism", which gives ToTF, missionary strength and something else.

Depending on how far behind you are in institution, game will set maximum cap for innovativeness. If you are one insitution behind - you set in "conservatism".

PS: if there is still no Pereslavl-Zalessky in Russia...
PPS: inb4TraitsForAdvisors

 

[Badesumofu]

Luck influences whether you get good or bad rulers about as much as it influences everything else. It plays a role of course, but there are ways to effectively load the dice in your favour. Disinherit and abdicate allow for republic-level MP generation with a regular monarchy. Mamluk Government, for that reason, is actually a pretty poor MP generator.

Much like professionalism, Innovativeness rewards the player for playing closer to the way that the devs intended. As it stands, teching dip 3 -> 23 in one go is often the best strategy. Innovativeness shifts the balance back towards trying to keep up in tech. How far remains to be seen.

It will also provide some incentive to pick different idea groups. More things to weigh up when making a choice. That's good for the game.

 

[Sfan]

What I don't get is indeed that monarch points pressure only exist for countries who start small in ROTW and try to blob. Everyone else drown in MP once you know how to make money, disinherit and abuse estates. So the cost reduction will have very little impact, besides allowing for an even more absurd and uneffective development if you try to play tall.
That's the first time I hit disagree with a dev diary, because I don't see how I'll ever benefit from this mechanic. Especially with how unlikely it is you hit a tech first unless you don't do anything with your points, with the AI Ottomans usually teching mil 6 years ahead of time because they don't know what to do with their monarch points.

 

[Mortheim]

Disinherit and abdicate allow for republic-level MP generation with a regular monarchy.

So, you want to say that you just can roll dice again? Isn't it still luck?
I agree that now it is better than was previously.

Much like professionalism, Innovativeness rewards the player for playing closer to the way that the devs intended.

No, it doesn't. There is no much tradeoff. You don't think about your resources. You. Push. Button. And it is trend. Third Rome? Push button - summon magic troops. Craddle of Civilization? Push buttons!

As it stands, teching dip 3 -> 23 in one go is often the best strategy.

Depends - most of the time i prefer to tech fast (maybe i'm noob lol).
But, if it is so good to do this isn't the system flawed? Adding another crutch won't help it. As i see it (and i work for russian game companies for 3 years already) they are milking EU4 into oblivion (i saw such practices for a long time).
Also, I can't take seriously developer, who milks game which won't let you leave into main menu.

It will also provide some incentive to pick different idea groups.

In MP they still be the same.
In SP no one cares unless certain playstyle.

 

[Badesumofu]

So, you want to say that you just can roll dice again? Isn't it still luck?
I agree that now it is better than was previously.

Roll d6 once and it's luck. Roll it a billion times and it's certain the average will be 3.5. Disinherit allows you to keep rolling until you get the result you want. I mean you might as well say combat is 'just luck' because there are dice involved.

No, it doesn't. There is no much tradeoff. You don't think about your resources. You. Push. Button. And it is trend. Third Rome? Push button - summon magic troops. Craddle of Civilization? Push buttons!

You can reduce literally everything to 'just pushing buttons' if you want. You do think about your resources because MP in the late game buy you more than they do early on. It's another factor to consider.

But, if it is so good to do this isn't the system flawed?

You mean the system that they are changing? Yes it's flawed. But you're the one saying the change is worthless. I don't understand this comment at all.

In SP no one cares unless certain playstyle.

Don't even know what you're trying to express here. It creates the possibility that when a player is planning to take a certain group first and then another certain group second that she has to consider whether to change that order, or consider something else. At the moment we typically plan out all our idea choices in advance (or some people just pick whatever they feel like at the time, I guess) now we will have to consider changing our plans if it turns out that some particular group is still completely untaken.

 

[Mortheim]

Roll d6 once and it's luck. Roll it a billion times and it's certain the average will be 3.5. Disinherit allows you to keep rolling until you get the result you want. I mean you might as well say combat is 'just luck' because there are dice involved.

You have much more control over combat than over ruler stats.
So, how often can i disenherit really? And what is the lowest to dishenherit? It is also gamble - sometimes even harsher than standart roll, cause you need to gather resources for it.

You can reduce literally everything to 'just pushing buttons' if you want. You do think about your resources because MP in the late game buy you more than they do early on. It's another factor to consider.

Not really. But those mechanics can be considered automatic (like taking MP from estates).
I don't often play till 17th century, cause by 1550 even starting as OPM i can have 5 level advisors and just swim in points.

You mean the system that they are changing? Yes it's flawed. But you're the one saying the change is worthless. I don't understand this comment at all.

No, they don't change the system. The system stays the same - they just add some crutches to deal with flaws. This is whistleblowers. They can become part of the system, but, at the moment, they are something external.

Also, read my suggestion in first post. I know that it is better, while still flawed, but i know that a lot of people will argue about it.

Don't even know what you're trying to express here. It creates the possibility that when a player is planning to take a certain group first and then another certain group second that she has to consider whether to change that order, or consider something else. At the moment we typically plan out all our idea choices in advance (or some people just pick whatever they feel like at the time, I guess) now we will have to consider changing our plans if it turns out that some particular group is still completely untaken.

There are strong idea groups and weak idea groups. And it is innate flaw of the system, because some aspects of game is stronger than others. Even with this change i will pick admin if i want to conquer, but i don't argue that point saving ideas can become better.

 

[Sfan]

Just answering about the disinherit part. It's about how much prestige you can generate. Early on prestige generation is low, from Age of Reformation you can have the age ability for prestige, and from absolutism you'll generate infinite prestige if you play wide thanks to all the wars you'll win. Early on I would disinherit anything with 9 or lower (below average), late anything with 12 or lower, unless it's a 6 in the category I need. As a empire in a WC, it's not ridiculous to aim for 15 monarch points in average (between 12 and 18), you make 50 prestige in like 5 years, maybe less.

 

[Mortheim]

Just answering about the disinherit part. It's about how much prestige you can generate. Early on prestige generation is low, from Age of Reformation you can have the age ability for prestige, and from absolutism you'll generate infinite prestige if you play wide thanks to all the wars you'll win. Early on I would disinherit anything with 9 or lower (below average), late anything with 12 or lower, unless it's a 6 in the category I need. As a goble spanning empire, it's not ridiculous to aim for 15 monarch points, you make 50 prestige in like 5 years, maybe less.

Thanks for that insight! Never played for so long to experience this.
Late game really needs to be adressed...