Is it common for non-participants to join forces and battle neutral people?

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

Howdy!

I was playing with a friend of mine in the Iberian Peninsula, 1066 start. No mods, all the DLCs (except Sunset Invasion), latest version. I'm playing the King of Aragon, while he was playing the King of Navarra.
He declared war against Castille for his de jure county of Viscaya. I joined the war in his favor and we managed to battle the King of Castille to the point he barely had any troops. However, the Muslim neighbour south of Castille declared a holy war against it - which was prompted joined by France and Barcelona. Things happened as follows:

1. These 2 didn't join his war against Navarra, as the army composition imagem shows. A bit later, the 2 neutral groups detached and the Barcelonese group joined the Castillan group.
2. The Castillan/Barcelonese group went to Navarra and was attacked by me and Navarra. We thought only the Castillan army would battle, as we weren't in war against Barcelona. However, as the battle image shows, that didn't happen!
3. Just after that battle, I've checked the Duke of Barcelona profile and he's not in war against me or Navarra, as the wars image shows. What's going on? Why did his army battled mine?

 

[Soladept]

attached armys will almost always join the combat of the army they are linked too regardless of diplomatic status or hostilitys, if the army is attatched to the one initiating combat and in the same province at that time.

it seems kind of like a bug, but it may be an effect of how the combat engine works that may not be resovable, just pay attention to if someone your fighting has any neutral attachments.

I see this frequently with the AGoT Mod during the war of the five kings scenerios, play as a third party and pick a fight with Joffery or Stannis, you will frequently bash into their attached armys from the multiple megawars they get involved in.

 

[Crangiopharengoma]

I had an amusing situation where the papacy were a 'neutral' third party fighting against me and I ended up taking a couple of bishops prisoner.

 

[Montelbon]

Yes its annoying but its just something that you have to pay attention to when planning a war. The only exception afaik is Holy Orders will not fight rulers of the same religion if they are neutral

 

[Tryvenyal]

Yes its annoying but its just something that you have to pay attention to when planning a war. The only exception afaik is Holy Orders will not fight rulers of the same religion if they are neutral

If attached, I think they will. Not any fresh example of it happening to me, though, but atl a few years ago this was the case.

 

[Montelbon]

If attached, I think they will. Not any fresh example of it happening to me, though, but atl a few years ago this was the case.

I just tested it and they will not fight rulers of the same religion even if attached; at least when they are hired as a holy order. This might be different if they are landed and are a war ally but that is such a rare occurrence that its probably not worth testing.

 

[Rags17]

I just tested it and they will not fight rulers of the same religion even if attached; at least when they are hired as a holy order. This might be different if they are landed and are a war ally but that is such a rare occurrence that its probably not worth testing.

Years ago I experimented playing as the leader a holy order (the Templars IIRC) from a late 12th century start. The then Queen of Jerusalem had lost all of her holdings except for one lone barony in Sweden so I decided to declare my independence. For some reason every time I tried to siege her one small castle I lost the battle, even though i outnumbered the garrison by a minimum of 5 to 1.

After a lot of head scratching I realised that the problem was that as a Holy Order I could not fight a coreligionist, even to go independent. Since my money would also be reset every time it reached 300 gold (in return for another barony or second son) I couldn't even raise a mercenary company to help me.

That was way back when of course, these days I would simply hire a large dynamic merc band (ie second tier in strength and cost), or use tributary or allied troops to do the job.

 

[Thrake]

While it's annoying and the game gives you no notice of what's coming for you, you also have to wonder, if two kings are allied in a war, and their forces marching together against their common ennemy, if it makes sense that a 3rd party joins in and the 1st king watches the 2nd king army being destroyed.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I just tested it and they will not fight rulers of the same religion even if attached; at least when they are hired as a holy order. This might be different if they are landed and are a war ally but that is such a rare occurrence that its probably not worth testing.

Then they are not flagged as a holy order but as the lord who hired them. Probably the main particitant and not as attached ally? In my case, years ago, the holy order was allied in the war.

 

[A_Dane]

I raised the issue years ago (can't even remember when) as I got beat rather badly because of it once. Was told by one of the devs, that it was WAD

 

[AntZudan]

I just consider it a plot twist and act hostile to them in future. Its a good way of picking future targets

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

I raised the issue years ago (can't even remember when) as I got beat rather badly because of it once. Was told by one of the devs, that it was WAD

Damn, that's really bad. I don't remember having to deal with that previously - on the contrary, I remember seeing neutral stacks waiting there while only enemy forces fought against mine...

 

[A_Dane]

Damn, that's really bad. I don't remember having to deal with that previously - on the contrary, I remember seeing neutral stacks waiting there while only enemy forces fought against mine...

Must have been a religious order you remember. I still vividly remember walking my 6k Zirid forces into 4k Castillians, and then having the nasty realisation that they were joined by 2k leonese and 2k aragonese troops. Quit the game for a few weeks after that