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unmerged(72155)

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Mar 19, 2007
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Hello!

Im playing as Sweden and have problems with my economy. :wacko:

I have read in wiki, and is says "Trade trade trade", but i focus on production, and have no traders cause thay seem to cost more than they earn.

Som my question is..... is it a must with trades for a good economy or can i just go for production.

// Peter
 

Wetew

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Stilnoct said:
Hello!

Im playing as Sweden and have problems with my economy. :wacko:

I have read in wiki, and is says "Trade trade trade", but i focus on production, and have no traders cause thay seem to cost more than they earn.

Som my question is..... is it a must with trades for a good economy or can i just go for production.

// Peter
Trade is never a disadvantage and you can earn much money in trading. But with Sweden I guess you want to expand your empire and get your ownw CoT. That will give you a penalty if that TC aint of your own culture...
 

unmerged(71953)

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Mar 17, 2007
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Wetew said:
Trade is never a disadvantage and you can earn much money in trading. But with Sweden I guess you want to expand your empire and get your ownw CoT. That will give you a penalty if that TC aint of your own culture...


My experience with Sweden is that I tend to dismiss all thoughts about trading.
1. My BB is usually high, constant wars and expansion doesn't help either.
2. I tend to focus on NIs to improve other sides, usually military/expansion oriented NIs.

With all that high BB and usually embargoes from different enemies my merchants competechances are not good and thus it's close to impossible to keep a merchant in a CoT for a long time enough to yield a profit. However, if you are not a Swedish warmonger as I usually end up to be, you could possibly be quite competetive with trading, NI "screwd economics" or whatever it's called is likely a must have.

Oh well, I'm no expert in the matter so I may be incorrect on a few things above...
 

Surt

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To trade you need to go for trade NI's, trade efficiency, low BB rating, no trade agreements, no embargo's and don't conquer a foreign CoT. You usually need to go for the low value CoT's first as they are/used to be the easiest to hold onto.
 

unmerged(8054)

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In my Denmark-game, I have 5 traders in 9 different CoTs. They rake in 150 ducats pr. month, making up over 2/3 of my monthly income.

I have sacrified two NI-slots on this, and have not expanded to far down in Germany, and not at all in Scandinavia.

It's really a choice about what kind of game you prefer. Trading is not for the warmongers, but is a good boost for peacefull expanders.
 

PrawnStar

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Trade and Warfare don't mix.

Really competitive trading nations are probably trade tech focused, take the trade national ideas, have a pro trade form of government, have trade tech or compete chance advisors, refineries and very low BB.

I'm currently doing it as Ceylon - in 1740 I have 5 merchants in 15 COTs and trade income is about two thirds of my monthly revenue (down from 85% before I conquered and converted the Pagan gold in East Africa) - I have 93% Trade Efficiency so trade is incredibly lucrative.

If you are busy waging war then trade isn't likely to succeed, focus on building up your production.
 

unmerged(5298)

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I've had a game as Sweden, had a similier background as you. First NI was QFTW. When I had A few conquistadors and a explorer. Send one to the east and to the west. In East it discovers a lot of CoTs.

When I Had bought those conquistadors and explorers I switched the NI to Shrewd Commerce practice. I had a lot of merchants in Eastern CoTs. And this is without having focus on Tech Trade...
 

Manziel

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well, the problem with sweden is that your starting provinces are pretty poor. so focussing on production does not improve much for the first time. production is a good idea if you have lots of rich provinces, oversea provinces or provinces with different culture/religion.
trading is not a must, but it can help to get some money to finance your expansion.
 

unmerged(71642)

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Manziel said:
well, the problem with sweden is that your starting provinces are pretty poor. so focussing on production does not improve much for the first time. production is a good idea if you have lots of rich provinces, oversea provinces or provinces with different culture/religion.
trading is not a must, but it can help to get some money to finance your expansion.

I disagree that Production doesn't make a difference for a poor nation. I play as Norway, and what I find most effective at first is to get my Tax and Production values up as much as possible. The Trading income will come later, after I've had the chance to move sliders a few times towards Free Trade and to make other shifts (like taking Shrewd NI) to make Trade worthwhile.

Building a Workshop in a poor province has a far more noticeable effect than doing the same in a rich one, measuring as a percentage change. Going from 1 to 3 (yes I know this is in terms of Tax not Production, just bear with the example) is a much greater change than going from 6 to 8. And, to get the Production numbers up, all it really takes is settling a few decent high-value provinces, which I usually do by claiming my share of Caribbean colonies. One good city producing sugar can equal the whole sum of my production back on mainland Norway! Again, for a rich country like France, that single sugar province isn't going to affect them as much.

In terms of what research to prioritize, though, I don't invest in Production all that much; I focus on Government and Land, almost exclusively. With Gov't techs I can build more province improvements, and gain NI slots in which I can place Smithian Econ or Bureaucracy, to further up both Taxes and Production.

I tend to take Shrewd Commerce as a third (or later) NI and stay out of the markets until then. By that point, my sliders are set so I get enough merchants to make a difference, and if I'm lucky I've also discovered a New World COT that I can have mostly to myself.
 

unmerged(74575)

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Apr 17, 2007
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Marvek said:
Building a Workshop in a poor province has a far more noticeable effect than doing the same in a rich one, measuring as a percentage change. Going from 1 to 3 (yes I know this is in terms of Tax not Production, just bear with the example) is a much greater change than going from 6 to 8. And, to get the Production numbers up, all it really takes is settling a few decent high-value provinces, which I usually do by claiming my share of Caribbean colonies. One good city producing sugar can equal the whole sum of my production back on mainland Norway! Again, for a rich country like France, that single sugar province isn't going to affect them as much.

Acctualy no.... Only thing that you should consider when building workshops are modifiers no? going from 1 to 3 acctualy equals going from 6 to 8 since this isn't a case where the relative differnce is realtive since 1 + 8 = 3 + 6... see same same... Look at the modifers like religion and culture when you decide what order you build workshops in.
But on topic, trade is nice if you are peaceful yes, but if you expect to rack up some BB or taking over foreign COTs trading won't realy help you.
 

GAGA Extrem

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PrawnStar said:
Trade and Warfare don't mix.
Well, they do, but you have to be careful.
Since diplo-advisors now lower your BB, you even can afford to get more than 5 BB for a short while.
As switzerland, i focused heavily on trade and expanded slowly to the south to get a port and started to colonize. Now, i own half of italy and about 2/3 of the incan empire. Plus: Austria is my vassel :D

Slow and steady wins the race, it's just about not annexing and taking provinces like hell. :D
 

unmerged(70074)

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Feb 26, 2007
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I have to agree with that, as Mecklenburg I own the majority of the HRE, and have been in nearly constant wars since 1475, now it is 1520, and I have 5 merchants in every cot except for Malaca, cost to much to send them. Right now my BB is at 10.32 with a "tarnished reputation" so it is possible.
 

unmerged(71642)

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Netstroyer said:
Acctualy no.... Only thing that you should consider when building workshops are modifiers no? going from 1 to 3 acctualy equals going from 6 to 8 since this isn't a case where the relative differnce is realtive since 1 + 8 = 3 + 6... see same same... Look at the modifers like religion and culture when you decide what order you build workshops in.
But on topic, trade is nice if you are peaceful yes, but if you expect to rack up some BB or taking over foreign COTs trading won't realy help you.

I don't understand this refutation, and I think I was not understood in my original comment.

A province that goes from providing annual taxes of 1d to 3d increases proportionately much more than one that goes from 6d to 8d. If the tech cost for a research category is 100d (just to use a round number), considering this one province only, then in the first instance you'd tech up in 33 years (100/3) rather than 100 years (100/1). In the second instance, your improvement would be 12 years rather than 16 years. All my figures are rounded, and there are obviously more factors in the game.

My basic point is that province improvements, which come in a fixed size of benefit, are much more significant in poor provinces than in rich ones. Conversely, province improvements which are measured as percentages (i.e. +50% direct tax) have bigger effects in the rich provinces.
 

berhaven

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My favourite country is Venice, and I obbiously go for trade as much as I can.
In my latest game, I noticed that it is to some extent possible to fight a lot and still be a good trader, providing you are very careful with annexations (now is about 1515, and I only annexed Mantua, Modena, Lombardy and Savoy, while releasing Crete and Croatia), you keep an eye at war taxes, and you carefully build up a good network of allies.
I actually waged only a couple of expansion wars: against Mantua after I got a lucky core on them (and this brought also Modena at war with me), and against a Savoy/Swiss alliance, plus of course the war which is already on with Milan at the beginning of the game. The matter is go to war to win a crushing victory and not for a province or to. For the rest I had a long series of wars against the Ottomans which expanded to annex Bavaria. A lot of help came from the notorius berserk approach of released as per peace resolution.