i normally take one of those two at the start and pick a military idea as the second option, i like the innovative bonuses (especially - war exhaustion). just curious on other players views on them.
is innovative better than economic ideas for france?
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Economy is better for France, it has extreamly good policies with pretty much any non admin idea group.
-war exhustion can be gotten by DoF or just be more careful in wars.
-war exhustion can be gotten by DoF or just be more careful in wars.
I like Innovative, but it's usually not a first pick for me. I don't really have any qualms about Economic first; it's not what I would do personally but I don't really see anything wrong with it. If I had to go with an Admin idea as my first idea group, I'd probably go Administrative, honestly. Cheaper cores in Europe is pretty nice.
Yes, innovative is better. France has more than enough income to be at force limits, so economy is not needed – extra money isn't worth much. I'd probably pick any other admin group over it, with innovative and administrative the top choices. Or something from diplo or mil groups, of course, like influence to gobble up vassals.
You can always use more money.
Innovative will not do good at all, admistrative yes but Im not sure it is a better choice, it is maybe more of a preference and what other idea groups you have.
And how can that be then income is the first thing to compare if you wan't to know the relative power of nations.
That's also false, and besides the point. First of all, money is only important in the early game and since we are speaking of France, if you are having trouble in the early game it aint the money that's your problem. Secondly, money can only turn into soldiers while you have manpower and avaliable mercenaries.
Early game you can use more money, but mid to late game you'll be swimming in it anyway. France is wealthy enough that it isn't a problem even early on, even if more wouldn't hurt. The only reason I'm tempted to get economic as France is that the court moving decision requires it, but +2 BT is still not worth it. More important to get ideas that save monarch power or help expansion. Innovative helps both through tech cost and war exhaustion. France starts with 4/1 leaders and high army tradition, so I think pretty much everything in innovative comes in handy (maybe not reduce inflation...). Administrative is probably about as good, but France has cores to conquer so it's not as large a benefit early on as it might be for someone else.
Not that it really matters which ideas you take as France, I guess...
I'm not a fan of Economic ideas generally, to be honest - none of the ideas stand out, and the overall impact is not that great unless you are in a very tight position financially or like to run up a lot of inflation. The real money for Western Europeans isn't in tax/production anyway, it comes from sucking all the trade money out of Africa, Asia and the New World.
Innovative on the other hand is great for warfare, especially Optimism and Knowledge Transfer, and Scientific Revolution plus the random events will save you a fair number of monarch points over the course of the game.
Both idea groups have a few good policies, for instance Innovative+Quality gives +20% infantry ability and Econ+Offensive gives +20% artillery ability.
Innovative on the other hand is great for warfare, especially Optimism and Knowledge Transfer, and Scientific Revolution plus the random events will save you a fair number of monarch points over the course of the game.
Both idea groups have a few good policies, for instance Innovative+Quality gives +20% infantry ability and Econ+Offensive gives +20% artillery ability.
I have played France quite a lot in 1.7 and 1.8, and from what I can tell you now literally swim in money from the beginning. Trade income is now huge, provided you take control of Bordeaux and steer everything there. So economic is not really needed (besides you don't own gold provinces so you don't benefit from the -inflation), your real problems if you plan to wage wars on the continent should be army tradition and manpower.
You begin with a quite high army tradition (around 50), but it's very hard to maintain it over 50. Because of France's military size, battles will net you almost no tradition compared to other countries. Carpet sieging Iberia every 10 years for ~30 AT is doable but requires time and manpower (use mercenaries), both of which being a scarce resource. And it's barely enough to maintain 50 AT (without innovative it's 2.5AT/y). A good AT is crucial to get good generals, without them you'll be crushed by Spain and Austria. Don't forget that taking part in a League war gives +0.5 AT/y when it's over, this is very helpful.
The other benefits are -0.05 monthly WE (very useful throughout the game), +1 general (excellent with France, you need many generals now that Curia Control has become a lottery), -5% tech discount (which with the 1444 university puts you in par with the HRE states).
Unlike most nations, an admin idea first is a decent choice for France because you have so much dip points to spend on annexing vassals, and because you must go over the dip relations cap to secure allies early game.
You begin with a quite high army tradition (around 50), but it's very hard to maintain it over 50. Because of France's military size, battles will net you almost no tradition compared to other countries. Carpet sieging Iberia every 10 years for ~30 AT is doable but requires time and manpower (use mercenaries), both of which being a scarce resource. And it's barely enough to maintain 50 AT (without innovative it's 2.5AT/y). A good AT is crucial to get good generals, without them you'll be crushed by Spain and Austria. Don't forget that taking part in a League war gives +0.5 AT/y when it's over, this is very helpful.
The other benefits are -0.05 monthly WE (very useful throughout the game), +1 general (excellent with France, you need many generals now that Curia Control has become a lottery), -5% tech discount (which with the 1444 university puts you in par with the HRE states).
Unlike most nations, an admin idea first is a decent choice for France because you have so much dip points to spend on annexing vassals, and because you must go over the dip relations cap to secure allies early game.
From some france starts, definately Innovative or Administration first, then go Offense (or Quality or Arist if you like those better) second. You need the Dip early for integrating all these vassals (starters plus released/annexed ones) and some war terms. I like Innovative because of its giant MP decrease over Economic and it i pretty much the best way to stay at a constant 100/100 Army/Navy Tradition and 0 War Weariness all the time
Also the money gain from -25% is quite substantial too if you go for 3/3/3 advisors early what might even outdo some % of Economic Idea groups gain in the beginning.
Also the money gain from -25% is quite substantial too if you go for 3/3/3 advisors early what might even outdo some % of Economic Idea groups gain in the beginning.
Expansion and exploration as first two ideas as France to protactorate asia is probably one of the stronger starts for that country.
You don't need either as France.
If you want to spend ADM points, I would probably go for Administrative, Expansion or Humanist, depending on your short to mid-term goals.
Administrative is very good at the beginning of the game when you can only expand in Europe and you want to preserve manpower with cheaper mercs.
Humanist is very good when the reformation kicks off. With France NIs, you basically don't have to bother about religions anymore.
Expansion is very good around 1600 when you can use the CB to protectorate Asia. The additionnal settler is also nice.
If you want to spend ADM points, I would probably go for Administrative, Expansion or Humanist, depending on your short to mid-term goals.
Administrative is very good at the beginning of the game when you can only expand in Europe and you want to preserve manpower with cheaper mercs.
Humanist is very good when the reformation kicks off. With France NIs, you basically don't have to bother about religions anymore.
Expansion is very good around 1600 when you can use the CB to protectorate Asia. The additionnal settler is also nice.
Economic is mostly for sub-Saharan and new world nations with gold mines. It holds down the inflation and gives you a big discount on back-investing that gold money into manufactories so you can afford +3/+3/+3 sooner.
Out of the admin groups, humanist and administrative look the most attractive for France. If you want an easy time laughing at the reformation humanist is an easy sell, but you can also easily sit on +2 or +3 tolerance of heathens too. Not a WC-optimized group maybe, but strong otherwise.
Out of the admin groups, humanist and administrative look the most attractive for France. If you want an easy time laughing at the reformation humanist is an easy sell, but you can also easily sit on +2 or +3 tolerance of heathens too. Not a WC-optimized group maybe, but strong otherwise.
Considering y are plaing MP game, england and burg will probably steal all your trade, so y will be short of money economy ideas will get you cash you need, they are also good if you posess a lot of rich provinces ( france, austria, italy regions but not iberia or commonwealth). But if y prefer argesive style consider other ideas, since economy ideas are pure defencive style.
I don't like to play France, but for a similar country I go innovative. France has very solid manpower and can afford to just feed vassals and forego heavy coring out the gate, so I don't care for administrative as much... not that it's a BAD policy (it rarely is) but I don't value it high in this case. Likewise, I don't see the big point of economic. Innovative means you have great tradition even if you spend lengths at peace, or lower exhaustion if you're always at war, and usually do both, on top of the cash and mp saving from the cheaper tech and advisors. Innovative is probably the best idea group when you have no idea what the hell you wanna do.
Both are not really usefull for France. Economic is not really usefull since France have a good economy in general. Innovative is ok, but there is mutch more usefull to take before that one.