Is HOI 4 still a Hearts of Iron.

[JerkyJerry]

If such discussions offend you, you could always not open the thread. The title was pretty clear and if not you would have at least figured it out before getting halfway down page one.

I know it is inconvenient when the real world starts imposing on your own private reality, but the real situation is that people will discuss what they will and this topic does not violate any rules.

Oh man I thought you would have know what I was saying but you took it literally? I'm hurt. We've both been posting on here for a long time and you truly missed what I was saying? Me? Wow, I just thought my private reality was extremely well known around this forum. I guess I'll just have to try harder and more often!

It just breaks my heart to see you and other major long time posters, long time players, smart, intelligent, WWII knowledgeable, HOI knowledgeable etc. You know stars among stars. Arguing if a game that has long been abandoned is better than a game that is still being worked on by the same company . If that was not sad enough but this is like the millionth post about it. And when you and the other major posters add to these almost weekly threads it gives them credibility. That is what I see in my own little world.

It is a newbie topic, IMHO. They are made to get the community in an uproar. They do nothing positive, absolutely nothing. They are written and posted to grind an axe, nothing more.

 

[jdavis86]

What a non-immersive HOI4 with 3d models of troops, tanks, and ships might look like without any mods enabled.

View attachment 290363

Oh wait, there are no 3d models. Just NATO counters.

If players can't take 5 seconds to turn off 3d models and enable the game's default NATO counters, I don't know what else Paradox can do to help. The options are right there in the game's interface.

I appreciate your point, but I still think this rates low on immersion. Especially when highlighting a province at the same time.

The counters are too small and I do not like the rectangle shape. Though this is subjective.

I imagine some of this is due to the "division number" unit scaling feature. This plus their desire to simplify map modes, just doesn't work to my liking. Once again, subjective !

 

[Secret Master]

The counters are too small and I do not like the rectangle shape. Though this is subjective.

Well, they are rectangle so that you, the player, can see the strength and ORG bars at a glance.

This is better than the HOI3 way of presenting the information.

 

[pete_ts]

Army Group, Army, Corps, Division. I loved it. Combine that with IV's division designer and the ability to design your own ships from The Game That We Must Not Mention and we would have something truly awesome. IMHO.

 

[Axe99]

It is a newbie topic, IMHO. They are made to get the community in an uproar. They do nothing positive, absolutely nothing. They are written and posted to grind an axe, nothing more.

Consider me ground . I do agree these come up time and again, and I ignore most of them, but it's a bit like people arguing that climate change isn't a thing - at the end of the day, many of us take exception to statements that are clearly 'off', and if these statements aren't challenged and engaged then we end up with mutually exclusive silos of people believing things that are unchallenged (and often false) for all sorts of silly reasons. It's one of the negative ways that modern communications technology has interacted with how we act as a species. That's my reason for poking my head in and arguing the toss - because if the toss isn't argued, another little piece of perspective dies in that corner of the universe where balanced perspective lives . Not having a go, and there's room for letting people vent as well.

 

[Art1985]

What a non-immersive HOI4 with 3d models of troops, tanks, and ships might look like without any mods enabled.

View attachment 290363

Oh wait, there are no 3d models. Just NATO counters.

If players can't take 5 seconds to turn off 3d models and enable the game's default NATO counters, I don't know what else Paradox can do to help. The options are right there in the game's interface.

Those counters are not so schematic as hoi3 counters were, also hoi3 counters don't jump around the map and don't mess up information. I prefer to see my divisions in the provinces where they are, not approximately if I look from distance.
I would like to see hoi3 counters in place of 3d soldiers and hoi4 counters disabled at all, I don't understand why we don't have such options when we had those before.

 

[Dalwin]

Consider me ground . I do agree these come up time and again, and I ignore most of them, but it's a bit like people arguing that climate change isn't a thing - at the end of the day, many of us take exception to statements that are clearly 'off', and if these statements aren't challenged and engaged then we end up with mutually exclusive silos of people believing things that are unchallenged (and often false) for all sorts of silly reasons. It's one of the negative ways that modern communications technology has interacted with how we act as a species. That's my reason for poking my head in and arguing the toss - because if the toss isn't argued, another little piece of perspective dies in that corner of the universe where balanced perspective lives . Not having a go, and there's room for letting people vent as well.

I think you have hit it precisely on the head here. For some of these repetitive topics, it is not that the discussion itself is interesting. It is more about not letting the BS pass unchallenged so that the newer players start to believe he myths.

 

[virre]

Hoi4 is not a successor to hoi3. I see it has a standalone spinoff. Taking the main theme ( strategy, ww2 settings ) and making its own game. Sort of Warcraft 3 => WoW.

 

[wingo]

No, it was HOI3 that was the odd man out, taking a detour to the lands of Wargame. HOI4 then returned back to Grand Strategy.

 

[Sarmatian]

I find it hard to believe that game like HOI3, which was an almost unplayable mess when it came, and was made playable only after two expansion is held in such a high regard by some.

I remember spending literally hours trying to set up Soviet OOB as a I wanted, and eventually giving up. In the end, I've just build a bunch of stuff, assigned it somewhere, declared war on Germany in 1942 and let AI conquer it after a few months.

Then I went back to HOI2.

 

[grandad1982]

I find it hard to believe that game like HOI3, which was an almost unplayable mess when it came, and was made playable only after two expansion is held in such a high regard by some.

I remember spending literally hours trying to set up Soviet OOB as a I wanted, and eventually giving up. In the end, I've just build a bunch of stuff, assigned it somewhere, declared war on Germany in 1942 and let AI conquer it after a few months.

Then I went back to HOI2.

People are always blinded by their own personal nostalgia.

I used to play lots of civ (started with 2) and hang out in the civ fanatics forums. A new release always follows the same pattern. Some people love the new game, some think that the last one was the best ever and with the new one the sky is falling,hey others say 'I remember this from last time around' and so the world keeps turning.

 

[man0lo]

This game is nothing but a numbers game. All you have to do is spam.

Soviet Union beat Germany cuz of unit spam in reality...

 

[jdavis86]

I find it hard to believe that game like HOI3, which was an almost unplayable mess when it came, and was made playable only after two expansion is held in such a high regard by some.

I remember spending literally hours trying to set up Soviet OOB as a I wanted, and eventually giving up. In the end, I've just build a bunch of stuff, assigned it somewhere, declared war on Germany in 1942 and let AI conquer it after a few months.

Then I went back to HOI2.

Perhaps this is where personality types impact game enjoyment. I don't disagree that the Soviet OOB was a CHORE to manage.

However, when we are forced to take time to make choices, our relationship with the game deepens.

Those 5 Soviet division commanders we hand picked to hold down a special province...that increases our emotional attachment to the game and immersion, and our interest in the outcome of that battle.

Of course, clicking 50,000 times to set up your army isn't fun either. There is some balance here, and it is easily possible that I'm more sentimental than some regarding my division commanders .

 

[virre]

Hoi3 was way to much management. Hoi4 has 0 managment. Why can't we land somewhere in the middle ?

 

[Anthedon]

I'd say yes. The only part where Paradox got carried away with making it accessible is the supply system.

The remaining problems are mostly tied to the hilariously incompetent AI and some UI issues (no minimap, etc.).

 

[Praetori]

Well, they are rectangle so that you, the player, can see the strength and ORG bars at a glance.

This is better than the HOI3 way of presenting the information.

There's some waste of GUI space there though. I wouldn't mind having more information on the counters and the grouping is just terrible and unintuitive.
With some semblance of a off-map OOB the grouping could easily and logically be done to corps/army level when zooming out which would be tremendously helpful for managing battle-plans, the icon could switch when zooming out (and the grouping happens) to numbered army symbol or something similar with averaged STR/ORG and the indicators for success/failure (that's now on the theater tab) for an even better overview on-a-glance.
It would also be very useful if the supply situation was represented when zooming out. Not as detailed as in the supply map but at least partially.

Those 5 Soviet division commanders we hand picked to hold down a special province...that increases our emotional attachment to the game and immersion, and our interest in the outcome of that battle.

Of course, clicking 50,000 times to set up your army isn't fun either. There is some balance here, and it is easily possible that I'm more sentimental than some regarding my division commanders .

This!
Divisional flavor was possible through the generals. I would love if some randomness to divisional performance was added through automatically generated commanders. These could then be recruited for PP (just like extra generals are now) or they could pop-up as aces do for air-wings. The traits would make much more sense as well and there would be hard choices on whether to keep that good armored commander leading a division or to promote him to corps/army commander where said traits don't apply.

A lot of the new mechanics in HOI4 are great and way better than most of the features in the previous titles but some of the heart was traded for more iron. Losing a division in HOI4 is painful for other reasons than in HOI2 or 3. In HOI4 you think first of the production and equipment consequences on the strategic level while in HOI2 and 3 it was on a more immersive level and the operational consequences were the primary concern.
Likewise, losing a capital-ship in HOI4 is clearly more "meh" than it was in HOI3. In HOI3 the capital assets was something you could tinker with and every build came down to choices. Upgrades meant planning and you grew attached to the vessels in question and the detailed lists of losses meant you also learned to fear the oppositions main assets (at least in MP). Right now we don't even have consolidated statistics for our ships and going through every single destroyer or lost ship (which is in a completely different interface) in an attempt to gauge the situation at sea is just hopeless and as much as any micro-chore in HOI3.

Regarding some more form of OOB or ways to organize the troops PDS has explicitly said that it's something they have on their wishlist but there are no official details released yet.
I can understand why it was omitted in the first place since the 50k klicks from HOI3 OOB setup wasn't really a good core mechanic.

 

[coffeelingfine]

Those counters are not so schematic as hoi3 counters were, also hoi3 counters don't jump around the map and don't mess up information. I prefer to see my divisions in the provinces where they are, not approximately if I look from distance.
I would like to see hoi3 counters in place of 3d soldiers and hoi4 counters disabled at all, I don't understand why we don't have such options when we had those before.

What's wrong with the 3D soldiers? I love them. Makes me feel like I'm playing Company of Heroes but on a global scale lol.

 

[Kovax]

The 50k clicks to set up an OOB for the Soviet Union in HOI3 are why I only played them once (and why I didn't finish that campaign). I tend to play minor countries in that game, because you don't have 200+ divisions to manage, so every unit in your small army matters. Even Germany was "manageable" in 1936, but by 1942, I'm tired of assigning leaders and attaching/detaching brigades and divisions from the OOB. The idea of an OOB was good, and it has its functions for finding individual specialist units amid a sea of generic infantry, particularly with a larger country. Moving the HQs around to keep them within range of the divisions was needless tedium. Having a commander for every last division was probably overkill, but officer assignments on a Corps level would make sense to me. Removing the OOB completely still seems like a big mistake.

Things that HOI3 did right included arrows to show which way EACH of the divisions was moving, rather than showing the facing of a marching figure representing only the top unit on the list. Things it did wrong included stacking the counters with no way to see what the ones beneath the top were, unless you ran an air unit into the province to do recon, which then showed the entire and exact contents by brigade.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

Hoi3 was way to much management. Hoi4 has 0 managment. Why can't we land somewhere in the middle ?

Your statement is 100% false. HOI IV is way more micromanagement intensive than HOI III TFH and I proved it in this thread if you only cared to see the posts/video. In fact HOI III TFH is what you are looking for since it is the only HOI game where the player only micromanages whatever he/she likes to micro and the AI can do the rest.

Of course, clicking 50,000 times to set up your army isn't fun either. There is some balance here, and it is easily possible that I'm more sentimental than some regarding my division commanders .

OMFG We don´t need to do 50K clicks to organize the Soviet OOB, that fraking OOB can be functional in ~5 minutes or less and with barely any clicking! We also don´t need to do more than a handful of clicking to update the composition of the starting Soviet divisions to something more effective IF we know what we are doing! Let me know if I have to do another video to prove my point!



I am sorry but I have to say that the level of ignorance, misinformation and even poison towards HOI III TFH in this forum goes through the roof. Fraking unbelievable.

 

[Art1985]

What's wrong with the 3D soldiers? I love them. Makes me feel like I'm playing Company of Heroes but on a global scale lol.

That is my main problem, this is not COH! This is not tactical action strategy game, this is strategy about big strategic decisions and operations. When I want to play Company of Heroes I play that game and there I want to see 3d soldiers and all that stuff.... but when I want to feel like I am in HQ planing big war operations I want to see different immersion.