I said the mech isn't any deader with a Marauder. None of those four things you brought up are in actual disagreement with what I wrote.
Is headcapping too powerful?
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I said the mech isn't any deader with a Marauder. None of those four things you brought up are in actual disagreement with what I wrote.
I agree that a 50% bonus would be enough. Headshot probability should probably be 12-14% at most. Then a Marauder had 18-21%.
I dunno about that, I think simply saying "no hitting the head unless the 'Mech is down or offline" is a better limitation. I mean, that still leaves "drill through the torso like that scene in Kung Pow!" as an alternative. Mind you, as I've said - I tend to skip right there because there are so many stock configs which store the ammo there. And I love the smell of cooking ammo on the battlefield.
Smells like victory.
Yes, except this was still an issue, long before Heavy Metal, even during the Backer Beta Skirmish days. Headcapping is one of those things in BattleTech which has existed since forever, and it always either felt spectacular or as though someone got cheated out of their fun - depending on the mood and the people you were hanging out with. The major difference between here and there is the limitation of not being able to target the head freely. (And using optional rules for Pilot Skills, hoo boy you can build a pilot to do much worse things than headcapping if they live long enough. 2/X Pilots with Weapons Specialists with Sniper are evil.)
I don't expect this to be solved without a couple more layers on top of this game, so maybe once you start getting into zellbrigen... penalizing intentional headhunting would be far more interesting to see happen to happy Targeting Computer abusing Clanner yahoos
I dunno about that, I think simply saying "no hitting the head unless the 'Mech is down or offline" is a better limitation. I mean, that still leaves "drill through the torso like that scene in Kung Pow!" as an alternative. Mind you, as I've said - I tend to skip right there because there are so many stock configs which store the ammo there. And I love the smell of cooking ammo on the battlefield.
Smells like victory.
Yes, except this was still an issue, long before Heavy Metal, even during the Backer Beta Skirmish days. Headcapping is one of those things in BattleTech which has existed since forever, and it always either felt spectacular or as though someone got cheated out of their fun - depending on the mood and the people you were hanging out with. The major difference between here and there is the limitation of not being able to target the head freely. (And using optional rules for Pilot Skills, hoo boy you can build a pilot to do much worse things than headcapping if they live long enough. 2/X Pilots with Weapons Specialists with Sniper are evil.)
I don't expect this to be solved without a couple more layers on top of this game, so maybe once you start getting into zellbrigen... penalizing intentional headhunting would be far more interesting to see happen to happy Targeting Computer abusing Clanner yahoos
Why on earth would a society that deplores waste and celebrates skill look down on headshots, the highest salvage, highest skill way to take out an enemy mech?
The Adder, as a light mech with 2 ER PPCs and a targeting computer, makes a lot of sense as a dueling zellbrigen headcap machine under weight class-based initiative rules.
Waste? No, just culling the unlucky. The Clan does not need a bunch of ill-fated or accident-prone bondsmen loafing around.
Or Clan Smoke Jaguar...At least the ill-fated part. I mopped up a whole slew of Bondsmen on Port Arthur
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Because Clanners are really really dumb like that. They sneer at melee, for all its effectiveness.
Before the Marauder I'd go for an 18% headshot when I wanted salvage and had time to play with my food. If I was getting bum rushed by 8 assaults I'd go for CT core outs with my precision shots.
The Marauder and its 33-35% head shot changed that to head shot every time. I didn't put jump jets on non-stock mechs so I kept to a pair of UAC2++ and a pair of Llasers +++ , to stay at range. If I didn't head shot the first salvo it was probably the second and very very rarely did it take a third salvo.
I'd like to see some optional balance settings:
The Marauder and its 33-35% head shot changed that to head shot every time. I didn't put jump jets on non-stock mechs so I kept to a pair of UAC2++ and a pair of Llasers +++ , to stay at range. If I didn't head shot the first salvo it was probably the second and very very rarely did it take a third salvo.
I'd like to see some optional balance settings:
- Limit pilot experience to 10 in their two chosen skills and 5 in the others. No more 10/10/10/10 but 5/10/10/5. Maybe only a 10 in the double skill and something less in the other, maybe 6 or 8 in the others but definitely no more perfect tens.
- Tone down the Marauder's +100% to maybe +50%
- Change the Morale system to be more like the Fury system
The current headshot epidemic has little to do with the Marauder and its inflated PS chances. Yes it's the best headshot mech right now but if it goes away, we'll quickly find out that any mech that can equip multiple UAC2++ and ERMLas++ is a headshot monster. I've even had rookie pilots score headshots with some of these mechs. The key takeaway is that a high volume of fire from multiple 2-hit headshot weapons have a very good chance to score a headshot kill even with lower percentages - especially when you can use an inferno/tag mech to strip evasion, guarded, and bulwark while applying stacking debuffs.
There is no cure for the headshot epidemic as long as weapons remain this overpowered.
There is no cure for the headshot epidemic as long as weapons remain this overpowered.
As far as that goes, people already say the Anni is right up there with the Marauder, thanks to its high amount of free weight, ultras, and the 20% ballistics damage bonus. Based on what the devs have said, 1.9 will introduce a difficulty option that balances the HM weapons a bit, so that should hopefully help with the Ultra situation somewhat.
Personally, I'll maintain that called headshots are just a symptom of the greater problem. And that is Precision Strikes in general. You can drill through center torsos about as easily as you can pop heads. The bonuses provided with high tactics (and the Mad's quirk) are just too high, and when you combine that with things like Ultras, the code that lets called shots even somewhat work with SRMs, clustering, and the like...
Personally, I'll maintain that called headshots are just a symptom of the greater problem. And that is Precision Strikes in general. You can drill through center torsos about as easily as you can pop heads. The bonuses provided with high tactics (and the Mad's quirk) are just too high, and when you combine that with things like Ultras, the code that lets called shots even somewhat work with SRMs, clustering, and the like...
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I don't generally partake of reddit, so no, I am not referring to that. That said, once player start building charts and graphs to optimize builds it's already going down that road for what is considered and declared optimal (again though not necessarily people here making these assertions).
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I disagree with the notion that Precision Strike as such is the problem, because PS is just tweaking the probabilities that are there anyway. Generally and depending on your angle to the target, not every mech part is equally likely to be hit. Heads have a small hit probability anyway. If you face a Mech frontally, CT has a higher prob to be hit than the others and so on. PS is just shifting the probs in favor of what you want to hit. If your angle is bad for a specific target, PS will make your probs better, but not over and above what can reasonably expected considering the firing angle.
And the mechanisms as such are just fine. The only thing that are debatable at all, in my opinion, is the actual probability shift for each body part you get and the actual bonus the Marauder brings.
Let's not forget that other factors add to this - availability of weapons dealing sufficient damage, for example, and that's +weapons and LosTech. A stock Marauder with regular weapons isn't such a big deal, is it?
So, with a couple of things coming together it makes no sense to shift all the blame to just one thing.
And the mechanisms as such are just fine. The only thing that are debatable at all, in my opinion, is the actual probability shift for each body part you get and the actual bonus the Marauder brings.
Let's not forget that other factors add to this - availability of weapons dealing sufficient damage, for example, and that's +weapons and LosTech. A stock Marauder with regular weapons isn't such a big deal, is it?
So, with a couple of things coming together it makes no sense to shift all the blame to just one thing.
I'd prefer something like 10/9/8/7 over 5/10/10/5... or maybe as low as 10/8/6/6. With Called Shot Mastery at 9, any limitation here is going to be a very big deal. I'd encourage people to try 10/8/6/6 as a house rule, since nothing requires that you spend XP.
As far as Morale, the more I think about it the more convinced I am that it was originally intended to be more limited than it is now, but the initial implementation had some bugs that either weren't spotted or got left in because of opinions about what was fun. Just to verify that I'm not the only one seeing this... at the start of a fight, the increase per turn and the increase for a kill is small... but by the end of a fight, whenever a new turn starts or I get a kill the bar fills up all the way. There's almost no way that was the intended behavior.
During Kickstarter and the run up to Beta, then Multiplayer Beta, you may recall that the inclusion of a “Morale/Fury” System was heavily discussed and debated.
In Multiplayer HBS was adamant, they wanted a System that favored the Side taking the most damage, and that would offer that player a chance at a Window of Opportunity for a limited but perhaps decisive Counterattack / Defensive Stand - with some iteration these became Precision Strike and Vigilance.
in Single Player, HBS wanted a System that the longer a match progressed the great the benefit accrued to the Player so as to compel a more timely completion of any particular Mission. Please recall that 30-45 minutes was HBS Design Goal for BATTLETECH Missions. It was and remains important to HBS that BATTLETECH be a game that the player can enjoy in one sitting, maybe even a couple Missions in just over a single hour.
Having a Morale System that accelerated the Power of the Player as that 20, 30 and 45-minute timehacks approached does just this.
So yes, I believe the Campaign and Career Mode Morale System is working perfectly well and well-achieving the design goal that HBS has in mind for it. :bow:
Hmm... yeah, now that you mention it, I do recall that there was talk of using it to prevent matches from going too long.
I still think the current implementation is flat-out broken OP, though. it seems to transition directly from small drips of added Resolve to filling the bar every time with nothing in between at all. I think turning off the acceleration completely would stand a good chance of making called shots exactly as rare as I think they ought to be. (In fact, I'll have to remember to look to see if I can find a JSON variable controlling it next time I'm poking around in the files.)
If you couldn't get Called Shots with PS you would just try that much more to topple mechs with stability damage (making weapons dealing stab damage even more attractive to field). As I said, it's not the Called Shot that is OP - it's just a question of balancing the probability shifts that come with it.
You know, there is a point when Vigilance is just way better than PS, and that point depends on your pilots' skills. 5% Headshots and 54% CT precision isn't all that great to waste moral on it when you could use it for added defense and added initiative.
The whole issue - in my opinion - is currently blown out of proportion (amplified by the HM lostech weapons and the Marauder's ability), because the Marauder adds so much probability while the lostech adds so many weapons usable for headcapping.
The main thing would be getting the called shot mastery right and the second is getting the Marauder bonus right.
You know, there is a point when Vigilance is just way better than PS, and that point depends on your pilots' skills. 5% Headshots and 54% CT precision isn't all that great to waste moral on it when you could use it for added defense and added initiative.
The whole issue - in my opinion - is currently blown out of proportion (amplified by the HM lostech weapons and the Marauder's ability), because the Marauder adds so much probability while the lostech adds so many weapons usable for headcapping.
The main thing would be getting the called shot mastery right and the second is getting the Marauder bonus right.
You are absolutely right - the HEAVY METAL team may not have had purview or sufficient mandate to re-scope MechWarrior Abilities like Called Shot Mastery.
Thus while they crafted a suitable Marauder Quirk (Armor Reduction and Called Shot Bonus) the Second and Third Order Impacts may not have been completely foreseen.
The Second Order Impact being the Marauder’s Quirk stacking with Called Shot Mastery to the point where a perceivable problem or Player disgruntlement could occur.
And the Third Order Impact being actual Player disgruntlement (like my own) and our congregating on the forum and frequenting threads just like this one.
But that is why game development is iterative. Just as HBS has done in the past with LRMs and Flamers, we may or may not see HBS refine the interaction of Called Shot Mastery with the Marauder’s Quirk, or perhaps one or the other component in isolation.
I wonder if the upcoming BATTLETECH Free Update 1.9 addresses this issue at any level?
Current headshot Precision Shot requires only one mech to reap the reward. The ++ weapons make it easier but aren't required. My set up for the Marauder is definitely not optimal with two sets of 35 damage (UAC-2++) and two 50 damage. This gets 4 - 35 shots and 2- 50 with a 35% chance, any two will headcap without DR. I don't know the odds but I can drop a mech in without cover in one round pretty reliably and can generate enough morale that I can do it twice a round, every round. Also the best ++ weapons are the increased damage ones that wil kill the mech from accumulated damage in the case that you miss the head too many times.
Knockdown requires three mechs at a minimum - two to fill the instability bar and knock it down and one to actually perform the called shot. The better ++ weapons do normal damage along with the higher stability so you need to make some trade-offs. Another brake on the OP train is the bigger the mech, the more instability it can resist, plus 'SureFooted' can greatly increase stability not too mention that a single turn of bracing makes it all go away. Also if the turn order is against you the knocked down mech might just stand up before you can take any called shots.