So I started a game with the USA with the mod Expert AI 2.0 so I disabled ironman because achievements are disabled with that mod anyway. I played well until late 1942 when I decided to invade western Europe. However I couldn't get air superiority even with 5,000 planes because Germany somehow had 6,000 despite fighting the USSR for over a year. Out of sheer curiosity I decided to go "tag GER" and see just how many factories they had. And I saw 600 factories. I as the USA who was in world war 2 the largest industrial power have a little over 370. I don't know if I maybe did something wrong, but if I didn't then I think Germany is a bit op without a doubt. Germany could barely keep up with the USSR's industry let alone the industrial might of the United States. Not to mention the huge oil shortages which heavily limited their tank and aircraft use. What do you guys think ? Is it me or is it the game ? I'd love to hear your opinions, thanks in advance.
Is Germany way too strong?
- Thread starter HOI3GUY
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Lol you put on Expert AI what do you think? AI will minmax (and get bonuses)
Of course VANILLA AI germany is stupidly weak.
Of course VANILLA AI germany is stupidly weak.
As far as I know the only "cheat" the AI gets is free convoys. And yes the vanilla ai sucks which is why I added the expert ai mod.
The Expert AI mod really helps them, and it's needed. The AI will actually make smart decisions. A player controlled Germany has the potential to do this- so I fail to see the issue.
Don't forget that plane numbers aren't the only thing to take into account too.
This is where a challenging war of attrition comes in. You'll have to raid all of their oil income with convoy raiding if you can figure out where it's coming from- then constantly throw your planes at them until they wear down and can't keep up with production. Honestly this is what many players want to happen as outright superiority on the continent is just causing Germany to get stomped as soon as they go to war with the Soviets. They don't have many convoys so they won't be able to import oil for long.
You have D-Day landings prepped, and probably will easily win regardless of air superiority. Actually check what Germany are using those factories for- they're probably throwing too many into their air force anyway.
As for the number of factories.. even I can't deny that it's a lot.. what's the civilian to military ratio?
Don't forget that plane numbers aren't the only thing to take into account too.
This is where a challenging war of attrition comes in. You'll have to raid all of their oil income with convoy raiding if you can figure out where it's coming from- then constantly throw your planes at them until they wear down and can't keep up with production. Honestly this is what many players want to happen as outright superiority on the continent is just causing Germany to get stomped as soon as they go to war with the Soviets. They don't have many convoys so they won't be able to import oil for long.
You have D-Day landings prepped, and probably will easily win regardless of air superiority. Actually check what Germany are using those factories for- they're probably throwing too many into their air force anyway.
As for the number of factories.. even I can't deny that it's a lot.. what's the civilian to military ratio?
I went through the list of countries with oil, and Venezuela seems to be the only one with oil that is not at war with the Axis. So it's probably them, I'll send subs there to attack convoys and I'll starve Germany of oil and they won't be able to produce planes so I should get air superiority pretty easily. As for the military to civilian factory ratio it's kinda even. Some 350 military to 230 civilian factories. I only have 220 military factories so unless I starve them of oil, they'd outproduce me with ease.
Keep in mind that Expert AI makes Germany also build a lot of refineries. You might need to strat bomb them to remove enough of their oil.
Yeah just cover the entire ocean in raiding groups of 3 subs per region and you'll starve their oil supply with ease- if they aren't engaging then they're getting the oil from elsewhere.
And damn, that's impressive for Germany to build so many factories. Once you manage to get air superiority/ a decent foothold on the continent- start bombing the crap out of central Germany where their factories are the most concentrated.
Just remember that they may be outproducing you- but they will be throwing insane amounts of equipment into the Eastern Front so I'd say their reserves won't last long despite so many factories- once you begin your invasion.
Also, your problem is that you´re trying to beat Germany in 1942 when they´re at their peak. It's far better to keep on preparing, try to take Africa, and let Germany and the USSR fight it out. Germany ussually loses a massive amount of equipement during '43 that you should feel comfortable invading in late 43 or early 44. Although I do suggest keeping an eye on how the fight with the USSR goes as it tends to end in an attrition war which they may very well lose.
Opening up a front in Italy after north africa is secured is also relatively cost-effective. The front is narrow and can be held and advanced with a few well designed divisions. And if played well you will deplete a lot of enemy equipment and maybe even take out Italy completely.
Also forgot to add- the Germans will outproduce the Soviets easily- so send the Soviets plenty of Infantry Equipment at least. I doubt they'll win on their own without pressure from the West- because the Germans usually stomp them on their own if given enough time so keep the Soviets in it for as long as possible.
Ironside they're definitely getting their oil from Venezuela. I used some 40 subs in small groups of 5-6 scattered them across the ocean and then a month or two later I checked up on Germany and will you look at it, they need oil, lol. Thanks to that I gained air superiority easily and with my huge industry I've been able to jump from 5,000 fighters to 8,000 in a matter of months. I invaded France and I'm right now on the gates of Paris with over 100 divisions in France. Your advice was really helpful, thanks man. One question that I still need an answer for is, is this my fault, or is it the game? I built factories well until 1942 and then just converted most of my civilian factories to military and left 30 or so civ to keep building military factories. Was still a mistake, should've I kept building more military factories? Or was it a right move? Another thing that keeps bothering me is whenever I send my 500 strategic bombers in France, Germany seems to be intercepting them with taking relatively little losses despite me having 8,000 aircraft there and complete air dominance. Why is this ? It says 100% bombers disrupted and I've taken some heavy losses, and as if Germany on interception isn't having any problems with destroying them whilst my 8,000 fighters seem to not be doing much to stop this.
You have to keep in mind they get all the factories from central and eastern Europe + France + Germany usually they outclass the US in the early periods
Nah, they also get free unit templates, the ability to spend their way into negative political power, and no resistance to occupation, which is a big boost for Germany.
Expert AI's kinda mis-named, it's more of a mod that removes the AI from a lot of the game and replaces it with hard-coded decisions. "Less AI, more hard-coding, some AI player cheats" isn't really a punchy title though.
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To answer the OP's question though, the Axis in general are more powerful than they were historically. I think it was a design decision to make the game less one-sided.
I don't think that is a fair characterization. The mod developer has written a lot of code to improve the AI in many areas, and from what I can tell things are fairly dynamic. It's unquestionably far more effective. There are limits to the changes that can be made without access to the AI source code, but I don't think summarizing this as "less AI, more hard-coding" makes much sense.
This is off topic but... that second screenshot looks like the UK desperately holding onto mainland Europe 
Yeah, all of those things are a big help. They are also the reason I don't use that mod.
I think it's not bad for what it does, and I understand why people use it, but it's not my cup of tea.
Alright guys I found out how Germany was able to build so many factories... It's actually quite simple. The AI was on "total mobilization". This allowed much much more civilian factories than with war economy which resulted in Germany just building military factories like mad from as early as 1938. Which is why in 1942-43 they had 600 or so, way more than me because I was on war economy. And no, it's not expert ai that's to blame. I launched another game with expert ai off and Germany still had more factories than me as early as 1940. Because they were on total mobilization as well as because they gained a lot of factories from France and Poland. Thanks for all the answers nevertheless guys, I'm glad I found the cause of Germany's factory spamming. Cheers!
Germany is okay, if they follow their historical path, they usually beat the soviet union. Soviets are too weak in my opinion, British are too strong.
No resistance to occupation is really huge for Germany. Would be great to have a mod that just removes that for AI, since it is so easy and cheap for player to manage anyway.
I think Germany CAN be a lot stronger than historically, but the AI usually loses the war quicker than the austrian did. Any axis power and also the soviets can be a lot stronger than they were historically.
To my mind, only the US and France are below their historical potentials.
To my mind, only the US and France are below their historical potentials.