Is game rule to include (or don't) India, Tibet, Western Africa possible?

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wielkicien

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i imagine it could be a game rule that makes all land in non Christian and Muslim world empty, without cutting map itself. There are already mods for CK2 doing this and I would greatly appreciate this kind of option - I have no interest in playing as tribe in Africa or some Indian ruler so I see no point in my computer wasting resources to simulate game there.

EDIT: Can people disagreeing with my post clarify why they do it? You don't want to give other players choice where they want to play? It's just like if you wanted to force everyone to play in India or at least observe what is going on there...
I suggested to only add AN OPTION, GAME RULE, to turn India, Africa etc. off. How can you disagree with someone making suggestion that will never impact those, who want to play in India and will make life easier for those, who don't want to play there?? Please, do tell! (@Franet ; @Rupmalya.K ; @Videogames ; @MarkFranz )
 
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LordofLight

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Yeah that's one worry with them expanding the game world too much. I'd rather the map was bigger but kept its focus on europe really. More depth for a region.
 

Andrzej I

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For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that the SWMH map of CK's HIP mod does a good job - cutting off southern and eastern India while retaining NW India. Muslim armies fought the Rajputs there for a fair portion of this era, and including the NW of India allows Islam another avenue of expansion rather than having only Europe and Central Asia to expand into.

Definitely with you, though, in cutting southern and eastern India as, so far as it seems to me, these regions were largely isolated from the rest of the CK map, more focused upon trade in SE Asia rather than interacting all that much with powers to the north and west. I think they, along with West Africa, could be represented well with the sort of off-map mechanics introduced in Jade Dragon, focusing primarily upon trade interactions rather than frequent wars and conquests.
 

Rupmalya.K

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I play 99% of the time in Indian subcontinent, so the inclusion of it is the sole reason for me to get CK III.

However I am down for game rule to eliminate this region. Also I know it won't happen but I'll also like the ability to only include Asia as Europe is too far away for me to really care in game especially when they flesh out Indian region through DLC.

Only reason I care about Europe is GOT mods lol <3
 

DukeDayve

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I don't think excessive resource usage for a few African tribes and Indian rulers, as you put it, is likely to be much of a concern. The nature of the records available to us is such that the AI population of Ireland will probably exceed that of the entirety of sub-Saharan Africa.

It did when they released Rajas expansion for CK2. Took them more than a year to get the performance back to normal after that expansion released. Probably wouldn't affect CK3 though since they already know what went wrong and how to fix it in CK2.

I do like the idea of being able to turn off chunks of the map though. India and the southern most parts of Africa just don't do it for me. The far north/east Steppe too. It'd be nice to just turn 'em off for increased performance.
 

Creamu

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Perhaps a game rule to turn off any regions? So you could turn off Europe and India when playing West African kingdoms for example. And it also depends on the trade system they have. Just "turning off" entire parts of the map could be bad if its a more realistic and dynamic trade system.

That being said i dont really care for such a game rule honestly. But thats only from my perspective.
 
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rileymcmann

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That would be a good feature to have to include people with bummy PCs. However, this would be a terrible idea for anything else. The game is called crusader kings. Which means the crusades are involved which means you need most of the Muslims regions in order to have crusades
 

kviiri

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Removing an entire region by game rule is not inherently technologically impossible, of course, but it does scream "fragile" to me unless the devs put a lot of time and effort into making systems that are robust regarding the existence of provinces.
 

kviiri

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That would be a good feature to have to include people with bummy PCs. However, this would be a terrible idea for anything else. The game is called crusader kings. Which means the crusades are involved which means you need most of the Muslims regions in order to have crusades

The question is about India, Tibet and West Africa, explicitly keeping the Christian and Muslim world intact.
 

kviiri

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I think if they take any content out in ck3 that was in ck2 will be a failure. They’d end up selling India and west Africa for $9.99

The thread is talking about removing India etc as an optional game rule (to have less characters & computation if one doesn't have interest towards those regions)
 

Arbus

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The concern about performance is totally legitimate. I would go forward and add more regional maps, like "India only", "Middle East only" etc. If you want to play a shorter campaign, go for achievements, or simply aren't interested in other regions, having the whole map just consumes resources. Remember that CK3 map is 3x larger than CK2, as the longer the game goes the game needs to keep track of more and more data.
 

viola

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For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that the SWMH map of CK's HIP mod does a good job - cutting off southern and eastern India while retaining NW India. Muslim armies fought the Rajputs there for a fair portion of this era, and including the NW of India allows Islam another avenue of expansion rather than having only Europe and Central Asia to expand into.

Definitely with you, though, in cutting southern and eastern India as, so far as it seems to me, these regions were largely isolated from the rest of the CK map, more focused upon trade in SE Asia rather than interacting all that much with powers to the north and west. I think they, along with West Africa, could be represented well with the sort of off-map mechanics introduced in Jade Dragon, focusing primarily upon trade interactions rather than frequent wars and conquests.
I actually hate the way the SWMH's map deals with India, it's an otherwise great map but they really dropped the ball there in my opinion.

In that mod the Gangetic Plain is arbitrarily cut in half by some kind of invisible wall that doesn't make any logical sense to exist, makes playing as an Indian power a really weird experience ("No my maharajah, we can't expand South toward the Deccan nor East following the Ganges because there's a magic barrier stopping us. It's weird") and India in that mod only really works as long as you're conquering it as a foreign power (only then you might justify that invisible wall somewhat, and that still requires to use your imagination to fill the blanks).

At that point it would have been better to just end the map at the Hindu-Kush and call it a day.
 

ArzhurG

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Removing an entire region by game rule is not inherently technologically impossible, of course, but it does scream "fragile" to me unless the devs put a lot of time and effort into making systems that are robust regarding the existence of provinces.
Pretty much what I was thinking. The main practical issue that comes to mind is that borders move. That means that exactly defining exactly where the cut off would be difficult, i.e. you could define limits of the map that works for one bookmark, while you are most likely going to cut some realms down the middle at a different bookmark. Having half a realm would seem odd and incomplete to me.

I can also imaging keeping the balance of power for all possible permutation being quite difficult. Removing Western Africa shouldn't be a problem shouldn't really effect this, as the AI rarely interacts enough in CK2 for balance to be an issue. However, a cut off at India might be more of an issue and one removing Europe definitely would be.

The concern about performance is totally legitimate. I would go forward and add more regional maps, like "India only", "Middle East only" etc. If you want to play a shorter campaign, go for achievements, or simply aren't interested in other regions, having the whole map just consumes resources. Remember that CK3 map is 3x larger than CK2, as the longer the game goes the game needs to keep track of more and more data.
This seems like it could work and easier to control. It might be a bit too much work though, for not enough gain.

As for the performance, i agree too. Seeing that CK3 will be a newer game, the minimum specs are definitely going to go up. More land equals an even higher minimum spec.
 

Andrzej I

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I actually hate the way the SWMH's map deals with India, it's an otherwise great map but they really dropped the ball there in my opinion.

In that mod the Gangetic Plain is arbitrarily cut in half by some kind of invisible wall that doesn't make any logical sense to exist, makes playing as an Indian power a really weird experience ("No my maharajah, we can't expand South toward the Deccan nor East following the Ganges because there's a magic barrier stopping us. It's weird") and India in that mod only really works as long as you're conquering it as a foreign power (only then you might justify that invisible wall somewhat, and that still requires to use your imagination to fill the blanks).

At that point it would have been better to just end the map at the Hindu-Kush and call it a day.
That's fair, and I suppose I am looking at it more from the outside looking in, rather than playing as an Indian power. I just feel that, as India gets stretched out, you get further and further disconnected from the central axis of the game, which largely revolves around the Mediterranean powers and their connections. As mentioned in my post (and I'll admit, I can be wrong here!), southern and eastern India seemed to have little connection to the powers of the Middle East and beyond, more focused upon Southeast Asia. I suppose including the entire subcontinent, however, does give Indian powers the possibility of recreating a state on level with the Guptas of old. I just feel that including it begins to stretch the game a little thin, especially with little to simulate southern and eastern India's connections to Southeast Asia (which I guess could awkwardly be covered by CK2's off-map China mechanic, but eh).
 

Torngasuk

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That's fair, and I suppose I am looking at it more from the outside looking in, rather than playing as an Indian power. I just feel that, as India gets stretched out, you get further and further disconnected from the central axis of the game, which largely revolves around the Mediterranean powers and their connections. As mentioned in my post (and I'll admit, I can be wrong here!), southern and eastern India seemed to have little connection to the powers of the Middle East and beyond, more focused upon Southeast Asia. I suppose including the entire subcontinent, however, does give Indian powers the possibility of recreating a state on level with the Guptas of old. I just feel that including it begins to stretch the game a little thin, especially with little to simulate southern and eastern India's connections to Southeast Asia (which I guess could awkwardly be covered by CK2's off-map China mechanic, but eh).
Even if you're not playing an Indian ruler specifically, there's a substantial amount of interaction between them and powers with which we're more familiar that most people are probably unaware of. There's a gigantic map concealed by the spoiler tag below which will go a long way toward clarifying the point. The Delhi Sultanate is the principal example that I'll open with, a vast state that at its height stretched from norther Pakistan nearly all the way to Sri Lanka. The founder of the Mamluks of Delhi was a Turkic slave-general named Qutb al-Din Aibak, who started his career in the service of Muhammad of Ghor, an Afghan Ghurid warlord who expanded his territory well into India before pulling an Alexander and falling back to deal with more westerly concerns, leaving Aibak as satrap in his place. And like all good Hellenistic satraps, Aibak ultimately founded a realm to surpass that of his former master.

Second point: one of the great battles of the age of which you'll almost certainly have heard not a word is the battle of Amroha, in 1305. Now, Amroha is fairly northern in India, in fact not all that far from the western limits of today's Nepal. This most unlikely of locations served as the battlefield for two armies: one, in service to the self-proclaimed Second Alexander, Alauddin Khalji, a powerful conquering sultan of Delhi. The opposing army, in this instance, was Mongol, of all things, a legion of 40,000 cavalry belonging to the Chagatai khanate, led by warlords Ali Beg and Tartak. The Mongol generals were defeated and executed by a Hindu-turned-Muslim eunuch slave-general named Malik Kafur (famed for his beauty - really).

Even as far back as the early 11th century, the empire of Mahmud of Ghazni (so named after his Afghan capital), first of the Ghaznavids, stretched from the southern limits of the Caspian Sea well into north-western India. Southern and eastern India may very well not have been integrated into his realm, but you can be absolutely certain that they were well aware of it. Much of the history of India consists of invaders from the north and west trying to seize its rich bounty for themselves: Mongols, Turks, Afghans, Persians, Greeks, and more. Their isolation from the western powers has more to do with the land between them existing in a hostile state of turmoil, chaos, and strife more often than not. India exists in its entirety not just for the sake of a segment of the playerbase that wishes to unite it, but also for players and the AI to make extremely historical attempts at conquering and ruling it.
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Cephei80

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i imagine it could be a game rule that makes all land in non Christian and Muslim world empty, without cutting map itself. There are already mods for CK2 doing this and I would greatly appreciate this kind of option - I have no interest in playing as tribe in Africa or some Indian ruler so I see no point in my computer wasting resources to simulate game there.

EDIT: Can people disagreeing with my post clarify why they do it? You don't want to give other players choice where they want to play? It's just like if you wanted to force everyone to play in India or at least observe what is going on there...
I suggested to only add AN OPTION, GAME RULE, to turn India, Africa etc. off. How can you disagree with someone making suggestion that will never impact those, who want to play in India and will make life easier for those, who don't want to play there?? Please, do tell! (@Franet ; @Rupmalya.K ; @Videogames ; @MarkFranz )
if you can run imperator well then you wont have a problem with ck3 . also i hope for those who complain have really a weak pc because my 4 years old I5 with 10gbs of Ram and a gtx750 is surely not struggling with ck2 even with LARGE modded maps and thousands of characters .
so i wonder if you have an i3 or dual core or laptops or what ? even an i5 laptop should be fine with ck so idk why you say that your pc struggle , how do you play stellaris then ? a pc who cant run ck2 well cannot even run stellaris during the mid game .
the only time my pc had issue with ck2 was when i had a dual core with only 4gb of ram and a none gaming intel graphic card of 1 gb , just waste that 60 dollars you will use for any big game on improving your pc and you will be totally fine after 1 or 2 upgrades only .
 

wielkicien

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if you can run imperator well then you wont have a problem with ck3 . also i hope for those who complain have really a weak pc because my 4 years old I5 with 10gbs of Ram and a gtx750 is surely not struggling with ck2 even with LARGE modded maps and thousands of characters .
so i wonder if you have an i3 or dual core or laptops or what ? even an i5 laptop should be fine with ck so idk why you say that your pc struggle , how do you play stellaris then ? a pc who cant run ck2 well cannot even run stellaris during the mid game .
the only time my pc had issue with ck2 was when i had a dual core with only 4gb of ram and a none gaming intel graphic card of 1 gb , just waste that 60 dollars you will use for any big game on improving your pc and you will be totally fine after 1 or 2 upgrades only .

I don't have any issues with performance (aside from Stellaris) - my rig is quite good (GeForce 1060 6GB + Ryzen 5 2600 +16 GB of RAM). Nevertheless - if I turn off (via mod) India and Africa in CK2 my performance is even better - so I just wanted to have that option in vanilla CK3. I'm not going to be playing India etc. - why can't I turn it off? That wouldn't require much resources to do and many players would be grateful for this feature, as far as I can tell from the forums.