Is enemy status between countries predetermined?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

DukeLeto42

Field Marshal
75 Badges
Mar 24, 2016
4.140
7.050
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
Do you mean rivalry? If so, no, but there's always a limited number of options and the AI tends to choose rather sensibly (for instance, I don't ever recall not seeing England and France not as rivals from the get-go).
 

basc

Recruit
53 Badges
Dec 1, 2016
6
0
  • For The Glory
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
Pretty sure Enemies and Rivals are two different things. I've seen states swap their rivals in and out and I can change mine at will. As far as I know the list of possible rivals has to do with relative power, as in you can't pick a country that is far stronger or weaker than yourself.

But I don't seem to have any direct control over my enemy list and I haven't noticed any AI changing theirs.

I'm new to this game and there's a ton of stuff I haven't figured out yet.
 

DukeLeto42

Field Marshal
75 Badges
Mar 24, 2016
4.140
7.050
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
If I have you correct, you're referring to the "Enemies" list that appears above the "Rivals" list in your diplomacy tab. That is the list of nations that have declared you as a rival.

So, rivals: yes, the list of possible states to select as a rival is determined by your relative strength. This means a small state won't suddenly have one of the big states on its border as an implacable enemy (a rather nice feature). At game start, the AI will semi-randomly pick from its list of valid rivals, and update that as old rivals become unavailable, just like you can.

However, because that "relative strength" is determined by a number of factors, among them the number of military units under your control, it is very possible for you to rival someone who drops just below your threshold of power due to their poor performance in a war (or vice versa). Sometimes that's a temporary dip, and by the time you get around to declaring your new rival they will be back in the list, but other times the growth or decline of one will mean they aren't a valid rival for good. Over time, though, this means the list of rivals is going to change, and as you become more powerful you are eventually going to attract the ire of others.
 

bokorthedust

Lt. General
57 Badges
Jun 9, 2020
1.227
2.696
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
If you are referring to the historical enemies/historical friends modifiers, those are pre-determined at the game start, I think you can find a list on the wiki. Historical enemies can't go away no matter what you do in-game, historical friends can be lost if you go to war with your supposed historical friend. An example for the former is France and Austria, the modifier will always be there, no matter if one or the other declines and becomes irrelevant (or ends up a subject of the other), while an example for the latter is Austria and Hungary, which can go away if those two states turn against each other and end up in a war.
 

basc

Recruit
53 Badges
Dec 1, 2016
6
0
  • For The Glory
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
If I have you correct, you're referring to the "Enemies" list that appears above the "Rivals" list in your diplomacy tab. That is the list of nations that have declared you as a rival.

Ah, that's what I was missing.

At game start, the AI will semi-randomly pick from its list of valid rivals, and update that as old rivals become unavailable, just like you can.

So can I assume that an enemy on my list will remain my enemy until I am no longer a valid rival for him, due to relative strength etc? And that none of this is affected by our opinions of each other?

f you are referring to the historical enemies/historical friends modifiers

No I pretty much understood that mechanic.

Gotta say, there are a *lot* of systems to get your head around in this game, but it's a ton of fun to figure out
 

DukeLeto42

Field Marshal
75 Badges
Mar 24, 2016
4.140
7.050
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
So can I assume that an enemy on my list will remain my enemy until I am no longer a valid rival for him, due to relative strength etc? And that none of this is affected by our opinions of each other?
I don't pretend to be a comprehensive expert (I've enough hours in to explain core concepts, but don't have the thousands of hours of experience some here have), but in my time I've never seen the AI switch rivals until they are no longer valid.
 

MatthewP

General
52 Badges
Feb 8, 2017
1.776
5.250
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I don't pretend to be a comprehensive expert (I've enough hours in to explain core concepts, but don't have the thousands of hours of experience some here have), but in my time I've never seen the AI switch rivals until they are no longer valid.
They do sometimes. Under the right conditions you can improve relations very high and they’ll remove you as a rival. I assume it happens between AIs too. But it is definitely pretty rare.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

AvengedK1ng

Banned
Jan 28, 2022
1.143
1.864
They do sometimes. Under the right conditions you can improve relations very high and they’ll remove you as a rival. I assume it happens between AIs too. But it is definitely pretty rare.
They will also obviously need a valid other rival to select. I'd assume that if you lose land they want but are strong enough to remain rivals they might swap to someone with more land that they desire
 

bokorthedust

Lt. General
57 Badges
Jun 9, 2020
1.227
2.696
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2
I don't pretend to be a comprehensive expert (I've enough hours in to explain core concepts, but don't have the thousands of hours of experience some here have), but in my time I've never seen the AI switch rivals until they are no longer valid.

They do sometimes. Under the right conditions you can improve relations very high and they’ll remove you as a rival. I assume it happens between AIs too. But it is definitely pretty rare.
I had a Provence game where at the game start Austria was rivaling me (which is weird in itself given the power disparity, but maybe the Lorraine PU props Provence up), and in the first couple of years (by the time I used France to take a couple of English provinces in Normandy), he switched me out naturally for Savoy. Neither of us gained/lost dev, took tech or gotten any more subjects/land to make us no longer eligible for each other, and I didn't improve with him either, he just simply switched me out. At first I taught it was because possible rivals update in December and maybe it was just a game start fluke that I was a possible rival, but he switched to Savoy only towards the end of 1446/early 1447.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

AvengedK1ng

Banned
Jan 28, 2022
1.143
1.864
I had a Provence game where at the game start Austria was rivaling me (which is weird in itself given the power disparity, but maybe the Lorraine PU props Provence up), and in the first couple of years (by the time I used France to take a couple of English provinces in Normandy), he switched me out naturally for Savoy. Neither of us gained/lost dev, took tech or gotten any more subjects/land to make us no longer eligible for each other, and I didn't improve with him either, he just simply switched me out. At first I taught it was because possible rivals update in December and maybe it was just a game start fluke that I was a possible rival, but he switched to Savoy only towards the end of 1446/early 1447.
The real bees knees is having England rival you as Savoy, and them supporting genevan independence
 

Nostalgium

General
90 Badges
Jan 16, 2010
2.138
5.850
  • BATTLETECH
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
They do sometimes. Under the right conditions you can improve relations very high and they’ll remove you as a rival. I assume it happens between AIs too. But it is definitely pretty rare.
To add on to this, an event also exists where you can remove a nation as a rival, and they will get a corresponding event to do the same. It also gives an opinion boost. I'm not sure what (if any) trigger conditions it has, but I've had it happen a few times.