Is ecumenopolis op?

[grandad1982]

I'm my current game (agrarian idyll, inward perfectionist) i just found the ruined ecu and settled it about 40/50 years in. I'm fairly boxed in and my base economy is pretty good but not that strong. In this situation its actually a disadvantage right now I'd say! As pop grows there in going to struggle to keep them in basic resources and my miss phase expansion to low hab planets will suffer. However once I get past that economic shock I think it's going to be super powerful but not really op as such as it's going to take a lot of work to keep it going properly.

This is the first Stellaris game I've been properly excited by for a while.

 

[Archael90]

Competing with a normal world? They are an ascension perk. They should be powerful. But that doesn't make them OP. They have as I said advantages and disadvantages. Placing them is a strategic choice that should take those into account. And to counter your argument. Have those 7 planets and have them all be an ecumenopolis and have another empire with the same 7 planets but all of them normal. See what happens.

Yeah, this is valid argument.
But still, ecumenopolis does not have disadvantage They are not super-costly, they need less resources to make cg, and alloys, compared to normal planets, and dont need special housing for workers, bcs worker lives in their place of work. Of course alloys needs minerals, but so in buildings in normal planets, where they needs also volatile motes.

 

[Incompetent]

Compared to galactic wonders: I do think ecumenopolis' are better than ringworlds alone, but matter decompressor + dyson sphere + sentry array still makes galactic wonders better imho.

It's a bit of a false comparison because they produce different resources. I'd say rather that there is a nearly perfect synergy between Arcology Project and Galactic Wonders: the megastructures supply the raw materials to the Ecumenopolis, and the Ecumenopolis churns out alloys, some of which will be used to build more megastructures.

 

[Alastor]

Yeah, this is valid argument.
But still, ecumenopolis does not have disadvantage They are not super-costly, they need less resources to make cg, and alloys, compared to normal planets, and dont need special housing for workers, bcs worker lives in their place of work. Of course alloys needs minerals, but so in buildings in normal planets, where they needs also volatile motes.

The upgraded versions do. Initial foundries don't. And the primary disadvantage is that they lose access to their normal resource producing districts.

 

[Archael90]

The upgraded versions do. Initial foundries don't. And the primary disadvantage is that they lose access to their normal resource producing districts.

this could be disadvantage if you would play only one planet... no even that you could handle it. Energy can be produce in outposts, and fortress, minerals and energy can be ollected by mining stations, only problem could be food, but this you can make in building slots, also on ecumenopolis, i know, not huge amounts, but you dont have to creates 200 housings.

 

[Surimi]

I mean, we have to distinguish between regular ecumenopoli and fen habbanis.

Fen habbanis is ludicrously overpowered. It's available fairly early in the game with minimal effort (save some random luck) and is just such an incredible boost to power that puts cybrex alpha to shame.

As for the ecumenopoli more generally, they are probably slightly overpowered, but only relative to other, similar options. They're still probably available a bit too early, but even then moving them back and making them compete with megastructures might be a bit too harsh.

But where they are in the ascension perk progression, they are level with other special world types (gaia worlds/hive worlds/machine worlds) and here it becomes apparent that they are a little overpowered, because none of these things has anything like the utility or power level of being able to create ecumenopoli.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

I was one of the people who found their initial (pre-release) version quite underwhelming, but I'd say they are pretty good in their current iteration.

Main reason why I don't consider them to be OP is that they are "merely" resource manufacturing amplifiers. They don't offer anything completely unique, but rather allow you to make better use of your resource income by saving more resource upkeep via their districts than you have to give up deposits to convert the planet.

 

[mammothhunter]

It takes lots of time to set up and then you fill it for the next 200 years. Sure, its good, as it should be, as means of more efficient use of space. Its 2 city districts / year with all tech and architectural renaissance ambition edict. Something like 1 district / year by the time you first have an opportunity to build it. 20+ years to build all districts, then 10 years for the project, and then you still need pops to work there before its good.

Then hive minds don't need any and are doing fine without them, if not much better than all the ecumenopolis builders.

 

[AlknicTeos]

...
Main reason why I don't consider them to be OP is that they are "merely" resource manufacturing amplifiers. They don't offer anything completely unique, but rather allow you to make better use of your resource income by saving more resource upkeep via their districts than you have to give up deposits to convert the planet.

hm, hopefully it means, that they never got nerfed

 

[Secret Master]

Whether it is too powerful for its cost when constructed manually I remain unconvinced, but the free precursor ecumenopolis of Fen Habbanis (First League) is a game changer, allowing the player to immediately start a transfer of production and population while early in the game: All the power of the ecumenopolis with none of the high costs.

It's worth pointing out that even civilizations that can't normally get the perk can use Fen Habbanis. My hive mind stumbled upon it before I knew about the changes to the precursors. I was like, "A free ecumenopolis that I can't even make on my own to fill with my absurd population growth? Umm, yeah, let's claim that system."

It's powerful enough that I'm not sure Gestalt Consciousness empires should be allowed to keep it as an ecumenopolis if they find Fen Habbanis. Maybe it should turn into a Machine World or Hive World for them. I dunno.

 

[PedroLuiz]

Industrial arcologies are also great, but unless you have really extravagant living standards, you'll soon reach a point where you have more CGs than you can use. So I suppose the main point is to make regular CG factories obsolete (freeing up the slots and crystals for other things) and/or as an opportunity to switch trade policy away from consumer benefits.

Unless you are a xenophobe or hated by the whole galaxy you could just trade thr extra CG for more minerals and energy

 

[Losttruppen]

Nobody has pointed out the +50% growth which I think is another huge factor in their favour. Makes them very useful seed worlds once "full".

I've been playing a life-seeded empire since 2.2 dropped for masochistic reasons and Fen Habbanis is pretty much the only way to move past the early game on Captain+. It's not OP due to the limited mineral/food I can get on my homeworld and a lucky wild gaia, but it is certainly a boon.

I think the big things that make them ideal(not OP) are just how bad early-mid game Alloy and Consumer Good(CG) production is[without good trade conversion]. You just don't have any better options since you usually only have 1-2 of each strategic resource and a paltry Alloy income that comes entirely from colonized planets.

For good trade, alloy, and CG production you must build more planets, so for a very tall playstyle Ecumenopolis solves all your problems by giving a fast, nearly limitless source of pops and jobs and all the resources you can't get nearly enough of from space.

If we saw a boost to the space economy and less dependence on more colonies for empire growth I think Ecumenopoli would be better balanced. Only change I would be okay with would be fewer Alloy jobs since they are more valuable than CGs everywhere except on Ecumenopoli.