Is development on CK3 unusually slow?

[nilssahlström]

I wonder if development on CK3 is unusually slow compared to other paradox games?

It feels as if the wait between Northern Lords and Royal Court, and with Fate of Iberia to whatever comes next is very long and not really what should be expected of a big game, developed by a big company, with a large fanbase.

I haven't played any other paradox games but I looked up what the others (CK2, HoI4, EuIV, Stellaris) had gotten in terms of post launch content in the same amount of time as CK3, and the majority of them had more packs/patches released.

CK3 is by no means a "dead" game, it charts on the 100 most played games on Steam. But so does the other games I mentioned, and they all (except for CK2) chart higher than CK3.
Is it that the company devotes more time and resources to these games because the player bases are bigger?

Another thing that bothers me is that the other games gets dev diaries more frequently.

 

[Trunting]

I think, the reason is, that the major DLCs aare bigger in CK3. They need to rework a lot.

 

[Coplantor]

Well, is a sort of yes and no situation. Covid happened wich greatly delayed RC, both CK2 and EU4 had quite a bunch of early DLCs but most of them were shorter in scope when compared to CK3's DLCs, some of those tagged as "expansions" like sunset invasion were a small event without much change to the overall game.


On the other hand if you consider how long CK2 was developed and the amount of DLCs you get an average of something over 1.5 DLCs per year, and EU4 just a bit short of 2, CK3 DLCs per year falls somewhere between those two so far.

 

[Searry]

I think it's best they take their time for polish.

 

[Silens]

I think they're aiming at a release rate of 1 major DLC, 1 flavor pack and/or 1 event pack per year. Which is fine, if the major/flavor is adding something substantial to the game. Iberia is a prime example of how to do a flavor pack.

Royal Court was, and that much was admitted, something new for them and took much longer than originally expected. Of course, it then didn't live up to the hype and expectations that come with a long dev time, it also pushed the next expansion back for half a year... well, it's no wonder people start to perceive a lack of content, because it is coming at a slow rate.

If they can stick to their schedule and release a major DLC every year (similar to Stellaris, with 1 major and 1 minor expansion each year), with the occasional event/flavor pack in between, things will start to look better.

And on a side note, like many, I initially thought that the scope of Royal Court was rather limited and didn't bring more than a few gimmicks to the game. But now, after many hours, I can't imagine a life in which I don't get to see my emperor sitting on his stolen chair and people kneeling before him. Holding court, despite the repeating events, is fun. Whenever I become king the first time and get to hold my first court, I'm excited. I feel important.

If all subsequent expansions manage to add something to the game that will stick and not get boring over time, I can honestly live with a longer dev cycle.

 

[Blodhevn]

I think, the reason is, that the major DLCs aare bigger in CK3. They need to rework a lot.

so i havent played ck2 or any of the other ones, but tbh they dont seem that large for the amount of time it takes them. royal court took forever and really didnt deliver much.

 

[Werther]

Communication is also the most inconsistant of all their games.

One good thing compared to other games (Vic 3 kof kof), CK3 team is slow but seems to make cleaner releases, there are bugs but no game breaking bugs, that's something we sometimes tend to forget (but Vic 3 "port deletion", "legitimacy disappereance", "end game performance" just to talk about the last patch, reminded me of the importance of being able to play the game) and I want to thank ck3 devs for that (but yeah, they are not the fastest).

 

[CollectorOfBolts]

From Dev Diary #109 - Floor Plan for the Future:

As a project, we aspire to have a cadence of roughly four releases per year, not including post-release support in the form of patches or hotfixes. During this year we’ve released Royal Court, Fate of Iberia, Friends & Foes, and as mentioned previously we’re aiming to have a free update out before the year is over. We want to have a steady stream of new content, while also maintaining the game by acting on feedback. For next year, our ambition is to have somewhere around four updates (barring unforeseen circumstances).
...
For next year we want to do something similar to Royal Edition again, an Expansion Pass with a bundle of intriguing content. One drawback of the Royal Edition was the fact that the main beat, the Major Expansion, came later in the cycle. For the next one, we want to either start off the cycle with the Major Expansion, or make it obvious what the theme is going to be from the start.

And, from Dev Diary #108: Dev Diary Scheduling & Community Activities:

As for the future, we’re hard at work on upcoming content, and we’ve been for quite some time. Previously we’ve explained that we run our projects in parallel - what we’re working on in the Stockholm studio has been in the works since before Friends & Foes (but it’s bound to take some time yet, do not expect anything too soon). Our sister studio in Thalassic is also hard at work heading up the work on upcoming content and updates, this too in parallel with work in Stockholm. While we can say that Friends & Foes was the last paid content of the year, we’re hoping to have another smaller free update out before the year is over (no ETA for now). Additional clues about what we’re working on might appear over the next few months…

Based on the above and what happened last year, I'd guess that we will see something about the next update by either March or April (and possibly the update itself) along with at least one other update by July. Also by July, we will likely have either the "theme" for the next major expansion or the expansion itself. Then, if they are on track for the 4 updates-per-year goal, another update in August or September followed by one more in November or December.

Have patience; it's been 2 months since the 1.8.0 update with part of that time being over the winter holiday season.

 

[FishieFan]

Communication is also the most inconsistant of all their games.

One good thing compared to other games (Vic 3 kof kof), CK3 team is slow but seems to make cleaner releases, there are bugs but no game breaking bugs, that's something we sometimes tend to forget (but Vic 3 "port deletion", "legitimacy disappereance", "end game performance" just to talk about the last patch, reminded me of the importance of being able to play the game) and I want to thank ck3 devs for that (but yeah, they are not the fastest).

I think it's best they take their time for polish.

Which patch did you guys start on to think the updates come that cleanly?

 

[Luka031]

They have a lot of holliday time too so that slows it down.

 

[Eltener]

I think, the reason is, that the major DLCs aare bigger in CK3. They need to rework a lot.

I still don't get how anyone can say that any CK3 DLC is bigger than Holy Fury from CK2 tbh.

 

[Gwydden]

I still don't get how anyone can say that any CK3 DLC is bigger than Holy Fury from CK2 tbh.

Royal Court is bigger than any CK2 DLC, but that is because of all the 3D models. If you don't care about those—and I'm in the camp that finds them pointless and not all that aesthetically pleasing—then yeah, it's pretty underwhelming.

 

[Dagda]

Stellaris about to have released two content updates since CK3 released that super underwhelming event pack, which really should have just been a patch.

CK3's next 'expansion' not even revealed. So it's looking like almost a full year (Iberia was released 5/31/22) without a meaningful content release for Ck3, yet again.

 

[Werther]

Which patch did you guys start on to think the updates come that cleanly?

I had to stop one game of Vic 3 because Britains was destroying the world economy by destroying its own port, another one because parties suddenly disappearead and I couldn't pass any law anymore and had a 8 legitimacy gvt forever, and the last because one year after 1890 lasted an eternity IRL (due to performance), and I don't talk about my baby King in suits or my dwarves Emperors, only bugs that forbid you from playing. So yeah, ck3 can have some bugs and problems when a patch launch, but I can still play it. Ck3 has devt problems, but not really this one.

 

[Troyen]

Communication is also the most inconsistant of all their games.

It was covered in the comments on either DD 109 or 110 but the CK3 community as a whole really doesn't like filler DDs. So while Stellaris can get away with some dog photos and a teaser as a pre-holiday filler, that kind of thing gets massive amounts of red X's over here. The lead dev came out and explained they have fewer DDs in general in response to how the DDs they did release were received in 2021-2022. Which is why we don't hear anything until like two weeks before release.

 

[Kimlin1004]

Stellaris about to have released two content updates since CK3 released that super underwhelming event pack, which really should have just been a patch.

CK3's next 'expansion' not even revealed. So it's looking like almost a full year (Iberia was released 5/31/22) without a meaningful content release for Ck3, yet again.

Exactly. I’m not seeing this 1 for major 1 minor DLC every year really happening. If it’s 18 months between major DLC then we might not get another one until 2025. That’s insane. 2 major DLC and 4 minor(if they release 1 this year) in 5 years.

 

[Jobbb555]

It was covered in the comments on either DD 109 or 110 but the CK3 community as a whole really doesn't like filler DDs. So while Stellaris can get away with some dog photos and a teaser as a pre-holiday filler, that kind of thing gets massive amounts of red X's over here. The lead dev came out and explained they have fewer DDs in general in response to how the DDs they did release were received in 2021-2022. Which is why we don't hear anything until like two weeks before release.

Stellaris also puts out content …

 

[FishieFan]

It was covered in the comments on either DD 109 or 110 but the CK3 community as a whole really doesn't like filler DDs. So while Stellaris can get away with some dog photos and a teaser as a pre-holiday filler, that kind of thing gets massive amounts of red X's over here. The lead dev came out and explained they have fewer DDs in general in response to how the DDs they did release were received in 2021-2022. Which is why we don't hear anything until like two weeks before release.

The ck3 community is the general paradox community, dev diaries are their bread and butter, they should be desired

 

[Evethor]

Did they not also state that things would be different with CK3?
I`m almost 100% sure that they said the devcycles would be longer for CK3.

 

[FishieFan]

Did they not also state that things would be different with CK3?
I`m almost 100% sure that they said the devcycles would be longer for CK3.

They said dlcs would be larger and more expansive so slower, but yet to see that quality come through personally