its been few months since it came out, i heard it was garbage. is it better yet? or tolerable atleast?
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is conclave better now?
- Thread starter Dr. Crabnipples
- Start date
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I'd agree with Robert- Conclave is a hit or a miss for most people. The majority of the complaints were with the patch features such as the threat and defensive pact system, but honestly the DLC itself doesn't add much other than a difficulty hike at times for experienced players. Quite ironically though, the best way to play is to simply keep your Council unempowered for as long as possible, circumventing some of the new council mechanics which was the main selling point. You can also pass kingdom laws at will with an unempowered council and the members of your council can't form factions, which actually make things easier for yourself. Then you have the new education system which is nothing really spectacular either, since it adds more micro to the game (by default you're the guardian of every kid in your court, meaning you have to choose two educational foci for everyone) but does work as advertised to somewhat prevent god-like heirs.
Bottom-line is that your perception of the DLC will depend on how you play. The masochistic and possibly roleplayers will probably be at least somewhat satisfied, but if you lean more towards map painter Conclave will turn into your worst nightmare- especially if you happen to start with a fully empowered council and can't even hand out titles.
Bottom-line is that your perception of the DLC will depend on how you play. The masochistic and possibly roleplayers will probably be at least somewhat satisfied, but if you lean more towards map painter Conclave will turn into your worst nightmare- especially if you happen to start with a fully empowered council and can't even hand out titles.
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I like it when I roleplay, because there can be quite a lot of juicy tales generated, but when mappainting, its just an annoying DLC.
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I think it's pretty good, and I don't get the complaints about the education system--for the most part, it's now more streamlined with less decisions to make about educating your kid/wards.
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It's OK but It did change much since release. There was only one patch (2.5.2) right after the release but till then nothing. There are plenty of bugs around but most is not game breaking and has something to do with the patch. The conclave DLC is the only reason to play with the current patch. When you play with the latest, go get it. If not, stay on 2.4.5.
EDIT: We are on 2.5.2.2 but this are only changes to the EUIV converter
EDIT: We are on 2.5.2.2 but this are only changes to the EUIV converter
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It was never garbage, it was just a certain segment of forumgoers vehemently opposed the new mechanics and couldn't be bothered to learn how to deal with them before whining on the forums. It makes internal realm management more interesting and difficult than it's been in several patches (since revolts got nerfed into oblivion) and IMO improved the education system.
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It's really not more difficult. Except maybe for the discontent period after inheriting.
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It certainly isn't extremely difficult, however it is a little bit more than the last few versions have been.
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Haven't had a single problem with it. To just mention a few things...
Conclave is strongest when playing as a vassal, where you can manipulate things at your leisure, though it is sometimes amusing as a ruler when your vassals clamor for favors and use them strangely. The education system is much more interesting and I enjoy the new events associated with it. I've never been one to "groom" for godlike heirs, preferring to leave things to luck.
Realm changes are fine. I like being able to set obligations differently from the normal and what sort of friction it can bring. I've no problem with working through a council either and as an added benefit, I actually remember who's on my council now that their voice means something outside of %increase in "x" happening. Status of Women is a good thing too.
The threat system is easily managed.
The only thing that I wished was more fleshed out is ambitions, for all levels of play. I'm glad useless ones like "Get Married" were removed but CK+, iirc, has a number of interesting ambitions (as well as better raiding/combat events, but another story) that would appeal to both the RP and traditional power gamer.
Conclave is strongest when playing as a vassal, where you can manipulate things at your leisure, though it is sometimes amusing as a ruler when your vassals clamor for favors and use them strangely. The education system is much more interesting and I enjoy the new events associated with it. I've never been one to "groom" for godlike heirs, preferring to leave things to luck.
Realm changes are fine. I like being able to set obligations differently from the normal and what sort of friction it can bring. I've no problem with working through a council either and as an added benefit, I actually remember who's on my council now that their voice means something outside of %increase in "x" happening. Status of Women is a good thing too.
The threat system is easily managed.
The only thing that I wished was more fleshed out is ambitions, for all levels of play. I'm glad useless ones like "Get Married" were removed but CK+, iirc, has a number of interesting ambitions (as well as better raiding/combat events, but another story) that would appeal to both the RP and traditional power gamer.
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Conclave was a mistake.
Now, there are lots and lots of reasons to argue both for and against Conclave, and I'll not rehash them here, but there is one thing which grinds my gears so hard I can't recommend it: Conclave removes any way of permanently forcing vassal peace.
'Oh, just use your Realm Peace button!' You mean the one that still gives vassals a five year window to ruin your day? The one that gets disabled on an unempowered council (Thus rendering us unable to simply say 'Don't make me come over there'? That Realm Peace?
Exhibit A: I'm the Emperor of Rome. I appoint Duke X of Jerusalem to be... well, my viceroyal king of Jerusalem. The other dukes immediately rebel against him, wishing him to abdicate to his heir. Because it's a viceroyal title, I'm that heir. I press realm peace. Five years later, they rebel again and I'm unable to press the button again because... reasons. They depose the man, and I immediately reinstate him as viceroyal king. Repeat the process about seven times.
Exhibit B: I land my son and heir with a ducal title that I stripped from a duke who rebelled in an 'Increase Council Authority' faction, despite the fact that he had stats of 0 across the board and he wold never have gotten into my council if he were the last nobleman on earth. Anyway, a rival duke declares war for de jure claims, and I am unable to stop the war because - ironically - I'm an absolutist, and thus have no option for realm peace.
So yes, Conclave is terrible. For that is nothing else.
Now, there are lots and lots of reasons to argue both for and against Conclave, and I'll not rehash them here, but there is one thing which grinds my gears so hard I can't recommend it: Conclave removes any way of permanently forcing vassal peace.
'Oh, just use your Realm Peace button!' You mean the one that still gives vassals a five year window to ruin your day? The one that gets disabled on an unempowered council (Thus rendering us unable to simply say 'Don't make me come over there'? That Realm Peace?
Exhibit A: I'm the Emperor of Rome. I appoint Duke X of Jerusalem to be... well, my viceroyal king of Jerusalem. The other dukes immediately rebel against him, wishing him to abdicate to his heir. Because it's a viceroyal title, I'm that heir. I press realm peace. Five years later, they rebel again and I'm unable to press the button again because... reasons. They depose the man, and I immediately reinstate him as viceroyal king. Repeat the process about seven times.
Exhibit B: I land my son and heir with a ducal title that I stripped from a duke who rebelled in an 'Increase Council Authority' faction, despite the fact that he had stats of 0 across the board and he wold never have gotten into my council if he were the last nobleman on earth. Anyway, a rival duke declares war for de jure claims, and I am unable to stop the war because - ironically - I'm an absolutist, and thus have no option for realm peace.
So yes, Conclave is terrible. For that is nothing else.
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exhibit A: choose someone your other dukes don't hate to rule them and, amazingly enough, this isn't a problem. Alternatively make sure he has enough firepower to stomp them flat. Also, faction revolts were never disabled so this is a pretty poor example.
exhibit B: why are you giving your heir someone else's de jure lands without making sure he is strong enough to smash the rightful owner? That's just dumb...
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Because I was trying to solve Vassal Limit problems without creating bordergore hyperdukes. And okay, replace the faction revolt with... Some other duke trying to press his claim because his grandfather was the last non-Roman King of Jerusalem before I conquered it. Same exact end result, only now I revoke the title and give it back to my chosen viceroy, instead of just giving the title back to my chosen viceroy.
Okay, so switch it to a fabricated claim instead of a de jure. End result is exactly the same: I am physically unable to say 'Don't make me come over there' and channel Louis XIV Sun King - or even, y'know, protect my heir.
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What's wrong with hyperdukes? They are easy intrigue targets to get support to topple, if they aren't already targeted by another AI plot.
Granted, I haven't played an empire since conclave was released (I prefer playing a Kingdom slowly and expanding it with de jure drift) but most of my empire games had more or less open warfare every 5-10 years across my borders from greedy idiot dukes/kings. When I play as an Empire, I don't channel Louis XIV. I channel Barbarossa, which is both more relevant in terms of time period and thematically. My vassals aren't rich effeminate aristocrats that are easily cowed. Sorry Louie.
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I actually find the experience more and more challenging. Current new game is starting somewhere in Mali in Charlemagne bookmark. With tribal council, it means I'm pretty hamstrung in terms of how fast I can expand. Even revocation of titles has been limited as my tribal counts go around getting favours to avoid having titles revoked.
I'm still thriving, and probably only a hair's breath away from game over if the Andalusian regime (Umayyads have been toppled by a elecive faction) decide to come at me. But there's always an easy get out of jail card if I convert.
I'm still thriving, and probably only a hair's breath away from game over if the Andalusian regime (Umayyads have been toppled by a elecive faction) decide to come at me. But there's always an easy get out of jail card if I convert.
I'm currently having the best game of the entire 1000 hours played of CK2 with Conclave.
With the Catholics struggling early on in this game because Karl died early and Kingdoms went left, right and centre. A strong Germanic realm under none other than Ragnar Lothbrok himself swept in and reformed the Germanic faith in less than 50 years.
I had no influence in the AI doing this as I was way out east leading a Tengri steppe horde. Without the added potential for conflict that Conclave adds, I don't think this would ever happen.
With the Catholics struggling early on in this game because Karl died early and Kingdoms went left, right and centre. A strong Germanic realm under none other than Ragnar Lothbrok himself swept in and reformed the Germanic faith in less than 50 years.
I had no influence in the AI doing this as I was way out east leading a Tengri steppe horde. Without the added potential for conflict that Conclave adds, I don't think this would ever happen.
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Opinions on Conclave range from it being the best DLC in CK2 history to it being the worst (I believe I have even seen some of the people who are vocally opposed to Sunset Invasion still thinking that Conclave is the worst DLC ever), so depending on who you ask you will get a very different answer (particularly if you also want an opinion on patch 2.5.X vs. patch 2.4.5 as the patch made some large changes that have had a mixed reception), and there haven't been any changes since March. Whether you would like the DLC and/or patch or not is all but impossible to answer unless you specify which features you have heard bad things about and what would be a dealbreaker for you, and if you are willing to do some modding you might be able to offset some specific issues (though some stuff is very hard/impossible to change unless you are willing to do a lot of work, are fine with an ugly sort-of working workaround, or want to disable a feature entirely).
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As has been mentioned previously, a very large portion of complaints against conclave are in reality regarding the patch and not the DLC itself. The actual DLC is actually pretty good for the game as it adds depth to vassal management that was very much needed. You get a slightly less involved education system as well. A good portion of the actual DLC complaints are surrounding the education rework and by people who simply refuse to adapt to the new council changes and try to play as if it isn't there (which causes them to fail and get angry).
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I quite like it. CK2 is a rather shallow game, so council management adds a nice extra layer to the experience. It doesn't make the game terribly challenging either if you know what you are doing. I appreciate all features that take focus away from just mindless blobbing.
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