Is Clergy Promotion Broken? Or do I not understand something?

[prome]

I think you are right Valinn, there's definetly a problem in the game and we shouldnt have to depend on gimmicks to overcome it. I played (Sardinia-Piedmond)Italy to 1880, and while im not exprienced player, I wondered why I couldn't get any clercs either (without NF). My taxes were reasonable 30-40% for poor, and otherwise average nation overall. Couldnt use the interface well enough to say what was wrong but I think this is right.

Where can i mod the % for everyday needs? I believe this is not working as intended.

 

[s1234567890m]

i managed to boost my clergy and crats with NF's... then i got gangbanged by brazil and france

 

[Wunderlicht]

Nah, never mind.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

i managed to boost my clergy and crats with NF's... then i got gangbanged by brazil and france

Yes, you can power over the problem with the NF, as I said. But it's still a major problem. And should get fixed.

 

[podcat]

I acknowledge that it seems overly difficult for some nations currently. Tweaking promotions to work a bit easier is one of our priority tasks for the next patch

 

[Beagá]

Good to know. NF works wonders, but those regions who haven´t fail. As Spain for example with NF on capis I managed to get factories running as soon as 1841.

 

[Sakkura]

If some of your POPs are in the 80-90% area because your prestige won't let you buy a good, I think at least the risk of demotion should be lower. It's fine if your lack of access to the world market holds you back from developing, but it shouldn't ruin what you already have.

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Well, for my experience, you have to use NFs. And what I usually do is first use NFs on bureaucrats to get 100% admin efficiency and only then use NFs for clergy. You get a lot more NFs as smaller countries in AHD, so you just as well might use them.

 

[Sgt. Grumbles]

Played a Two Sicilies game and came up against this problem. Naturally, I used NFs to top my Clergy off at above 2%, and TS is lucky enough to afford 3 NF's, one per state, but as soon as I removed the NF, the Clergy absolutely tanked, going down to less than 1% in as little as 5 years. Seems like I had the same problem with Soldiers, too, but that might not have been related.
Then I got smashed by Austria, who somehow managed to defeat an alliance of Prussia, Russia, the Ottomans, and me... they seemed to have no trouble getting soldiers. 40K stacks roaming everywhere, killing everything they met up with.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Thanks podcat. Any idea how long it will be until that first patch? I'm not really interested in playing until this is fixed. The game is way too frustrating to me.

Addition: I presume by "promotions" you meant both, but just for the record the economic wreaking-ball isn't unwelcome promotions. It's the constant and heavy stream of demotions for all middle class pops caused by unavailable goods.

 

[Sakkura]

Well, for my experience, you have to use NFs. And what I usually do is first use NFs on bureaucrats to get 100% admin efficiency and only then use NFs for clergy. You get a lot more NFs as smaller countries in AHD, so you just as well might use them.

NFs can't overcome lack of goods though. If you use NF to boost clergy when your entire population is lacking... fruit, or whatever, then all the NF will do is shuffle clergy from one state to the other.

 

[Wminus]

This is a massive problem, though most people who only play advanced states (Prussia etc.) don't notice it.

Paradox: THIS REALLY needs a fix. I can't get any clergy as Russia, hell I can't stop the number of clergy from decreasing! The pops even say they have a 5-6 % chance to promote to clergy

 

[Sakkura]

This is a massive problem, though most people who only play advanced states (Prussia etc.) don't notice it.

Paradox: THIS REALLY needs a fix. I can't get any clergy as Russia, hell I can't stop the number of clergy from decreasing!! The pops even say they have a 5-6 % chance to promote. And don't give me any of this crap that I have to tinker with all the sliders.. It's terrible game design, if I set the education slider at 100% the clergy should come rolling in.

This is a GAMEBREAKING BUG which needs to be fixed. I believe this problem was added after patch 2 or 3.

Okay, let's take it easy with the VERY LOUD CAPITALS. It's a problem, and it's something that should be fixed, but no need to get all huffy about it. It's workaround-able. As Russia particularly; just get some prestige (war, huah, yeah, what is it good for, absolutely POPing) and your POPs will be able to buy their stuff and you'll solve the problem.

IMO it's a good thing if low prestige gives some of your POPs difficulty in getting the goods they need to promote. It's just a bit much with the demotion of eg. clergy right now. It's not so much holding you back as it is grinding you into the floor.

 

[Wminus]

The needs have little to do with it. My clergy mostly have all their needs fulfilled, yet they still demote..

 

[EMT0]

Okay, let's take it easy with the VERY LOUD CAPITALS. It's a problem, and it's something that should be fixed, but no need to get all huffy about it. It's workaround-able. As Russia particularly; just get some prestige (war, huah, yeah, what is it good for, absolutely POPing) and your POPs will be able to buy their stuff and you'll solve the problem.

IMO it's a good thing if low prestige gives some of your POPs difficulty in getting the goods they need to promote. It's just a bit much with the demotion of eg. clergy right now. It's not so much holding you back as it is grinding you into the floor.

If this can cripple a player drastically, then I would actually say that this deserves some immediate attention. Why would I play as anything south of France and east of Germany, if I can't improve literacy rates, and thus make it impossible to industrialize? I'd say that this needs a hotfix, or hopefully a modded solution sometime ASAP.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Why would I play as anything south of France and east of Germany, if I can't improve literacy rates, and thus make it impossible to industrialize?

The quick answer is you shouldn't. You don't just lose all your clergy. You also lose your artisans and bureacrats. So not only can't you raise literacy, your artisan production also goes into the tank at the same time.

If you're really committed, you can try for some quick prestige as a work around -- maybe a day one war or researching prestige techs. Except the types of countries who feel this problem are also the types that really aren't in a great position to do these things.

So only play great powers or have a very frustrating game.

My question is, how does a thing like this slip through such a long testing period? Are all the testers just obsessed with unifying Germany and fighting the US Civil War? Did nobody ever play a smaller civilized nation and notice that fifteen years into the game their pops were losing literacy because all the clergy were dead?

 

[unmerged(26764)]

The needs have little to do with it. My clergy mostly have all their needs fulfilled, yet they still demote..

As long as they can't get every single need filled, they will demote. Check the tooltip. There is a massive penalty if you can't fill 90% of everyday needs. Which, as the game is designed, many nations can't do even if they pay clergy max, don't tax them, and create negative tarriffs, because there's only 2/3 as much tea produced as is demanded at game start.

 

[Cyrai]

Really, it seems like a mechanic for this type of problem on Paradox's end would be to break the world market into segments and have buying go in rounds. The first 40% of all goods are reserved for the Great Powers to buy or not. Once they've finished their purchases, the next 20% of goods are open for Great Powers and secondary powers to buy. Any goods that weren't available at the end of the first round are also available in the second round. The last 30% of the market is open for secondary powers and everyone else.

The Great Powers would get the majority of the goods they want because they've had basically first access to 60% of the world market. The secondary powers get a lot of what they want because they get first dibs on 30% of the world market and second dibs on another 20%. The rest of the nations can still get some of what they want because they have second dibs on a full 40% of the world market for any particular good.

Unfortunately, it probably wouldn't work for this situtation because the GPs and the secondary powers would probably buy all the tea between themselves, but it would help somewhat. I just don't know how it would work with goods being sold in spheres first. Can't hurt, though. Also, POPs probably shouldn't demote so harshly, but that's a slightly different issue

 

[TheChronoMaster]

Can I just say that I had clergy consistently at 2%, and literacy around 15% or so, by the time I westernized as Zulu (1877)?

There has to be something you're missing, I think.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Can I just say that I had clergy consistently at 2%, and literacy around 15% or so, by the time I westernized as Zulu (1877)?

There has to be something you're missing, I think.

Were you using your NF to maintain those? Or did that happen naturally? Did you somehow have access to all your pop's needs on the world market even though you were an unciv? (Or are the promote and demote factors different for uncivs? It wouldn't surprise me if they were.)