Is China a Great Power, and if so, when did it become one?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

civfanatic

First Lieutenant
Apr 18, 2011
244
581
1) Is China today (in 2016) a Great Power? Why or why not?

2) If the answer to the above question is "yes," at what point in modern history did China attain (or re-attain, depending on your perspective) Great Power status?
 

Yakman

City of Washington, District of Columbia
26 Badges
Jan 5, 2004
6.315
14.269
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • 500k Club
1) Yes. Kind of. It lacks any capacity for force projection and is not the leader of a major international alliance. BUT it is a member of the UN Security Council, has nuclear weapons, and is one of the world's largest economies.

2) Once you sit on the Security Council and have nuclear weapons, you are a Great Power in my book. So, 1959 or so? Whenever they got the nukes.
 

yerm

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Apr 18, 2013
4.662
4.867
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
1) Yes.

If you are trying to say Super Power, no. Not yet at least.


2) 1961 - before this point I think they were effectively a bloated junior partner beneath the USSR on the world stage.

My view of a great power requires exerting influence externally and having influence on the world stage. I would think 1949 is the earliest since it was in civil war before, and 1971 when it cements its place in the UN is the latest. Google is saying nukes were imported in 1958 but development wasn't until a decade later. That's not a bad date either.
 

HuzzButt

Rymdkejsare
On Probation
25 Badges
May 11, 2008
568
1.788
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Iron Cross
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For The Glory
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
No, China is a massive country with serious economic muscle but it is also a poor country still. In my opinion China today is not fundamentally different from China during the 19th century.
 

magnusvejby

Colonel
53 Badges
Mar 14, 2014
1.081
755
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
1) Yes, and arguably even the greatest power.

2) Probably around 87, that was when China really began to shine.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

WSnova

Colonel
60 Badges
Jun 12, 2014
1.153
2.156
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • March of the Eagles
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
You would need to define great power.

China today lacks the capability to project power abroad that even the UK and France have (not as great as the US, but still...)

Or great power is about the economy? Or the size of the army? Soft Power?

Or if we want to go by it with Victoria standards (industry, military and Prestige) I guess it kinda is? I mean the military looks scary on paper, their industry is good, and they must have banked a lot of prestige.
 

Warial

監修五代史
74 Badges
Sep 27, 2009
3.794
1.871
30
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Surviving Mars
  • Victoria 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
1) Yes, and arguably even the greatest power.

2) Probably around 87, that was when China really began to shine.
Han dynasty best dynasty.
 

DarthJF

Byzantophile Daimyō Finnia
49 Badges
Jun 20, 2005
3.902
20.890
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Modern China became a great power when it successfully intervened in the Korean War.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

orochi2k

Major
115 Badges
Aug 25, 2012
1.378
2.096
store.steampowered.com
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
1, Yes. They have money, manpower, nuclear weapons and a ruthless government who basically doesn't care too much about human right and can order the nation to fight till no human left if necessary.(5 to 1 casualties is how the Korean war was won):eek:
2, In 1949, when CCP comes to power with a totalitarianism and collectivism policy.
 

Mechanical Franz

Private
31 Badges
Apr 6, 2016
22
10
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Weird thing about this whole thread is that China is the ONLY great power in continuous existence since antiquity. Has had its ups n downs along the way, especially 19th century European invasion and drug cartels overwhelming the place on the down side. But even so, no other country comes even close to this heritage and prestige almost without end.

Even in the early 20th century when struggling to become a modernizing Republic, China was one of very few countries to successfully defy the Anglo-Venetian finance gangsters who won WW1 and set up the communist version of the Russian empire. In the context of 19th cent. weakness, and seeing that even a former great power like France has no independent history from the Napoleon III reign, when it submitted as a permanent junior partner in Anglo-Venetia, this is remarkable testimony to Chinese national resilience.

This is what makes China the biggest issue and question mark in the world today, when the western financiers are striving harder than ever for a world state and permanent enslavement of the the entire world population. Here nationalism is their number one problem and foe. China ultimately gave up the imperialist ambitions it pursued in antiquity in favour of an intense, as well as immense, national unity that just won't go away, even under the European jackboot.
 
  • 15
  • 1
Reactions:

Warial

監修五代史
74 Badges
Sep 27, 2009
3.794
1.871
30
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Sengoku
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Surviving Mars
  • Victoria 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • PDXCon 2017 Awards Winner
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
Even in the early 20th century when struggling to become a modernizing Republic, China was one of very few countries to successfully defy the Anglo-Venetian finance gangsters who won WW1 and set up the communist version of the Russian empire.
That's new. I though your kind says it was Jews' fault.
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Mechanical Franz

Private
31 Badges
Apr 6, 2016
22
10
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
That's new. I though your kind says it was Jews' fault.
nope, definitely western gangsters leading the way, even if dragging some Kazar converts about along the way. Whatever your kind may be, probably not too wholesome, mine's about accurate history
 
  • 9
Reactions:

yerm

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Apr 18, 2013
4.662
4.867
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
nope, definitely western gangsters leading the way, even if dragging some Kazar converts about along the way. Whatever your kind may be, probably not too wholesome, mine's about accurate history

No sarcasm - this sounds interesting and I'd like to read more about it. Have any resources to back it up?
 
  • 2
Reactions:

HuzzButt

Rymdkejsare
On Probation
25 Badges
May 11, 2008
568
1.788
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Iron Cross
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For The Glory
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
Weird thing about this whole thread is that China is the ONLY great power in continuous existence since antiquity. Has had its ups n downs along the way, especially 19th century European invasion and drug cartels overwhelming the place on the down side. But even so, no other country comes even close to this heritage and prestige almost without end.

Even in the early 20th century when struggling to become a modernizing Republic, China was one of very few countries to successfully defy the Anglo-Venetian finance gangsters who won WW1 and set up the communist version of the Russian empire. In the context of 19th cent. weakness, and seeing that even a former great power like France has no independent history from the Napoleon III reign, when it submitted as a permanent junior partner in Anglo-Venetia, this is remarkable testimony to Chinese national resilience.

This is what makes China the biggest issue and question mark in the world today, when the western financiers are striving harder than ever for a world state and permanent enslavement of the the entire world population. Here nationalism is their number one problem and foe. China ultimately gave up the imperialist ambitions it pursued in antiquity in favour of an intense, as well as immense, national unity that just won't go away, even under the European jackboot.


Arguing that China has been in continuous existence since antiquity may be party line but for the rest of us the conquests by Mongols, Manchus, Tibetans, Japanese etc. tells us that the for a great part of Chinas existence it has been under the heel of it's neighbors.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

JodelDiplom

Field Marshal
22 Badges
Apr 5, 2013
4.512
18.921
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Weird thing about this whole thread is that China is the ONLY great power in continuous existence since antiquity. Has had its ups n downs along the way, especially 19th century European invasion and drug cartels overwhelming the place on the down side. But even so, no other country comes even close to this heritage and prestige almost without end.

Even in the early 20th century when struggling to become a modernizing Republic, China was one of very few countries to successfully defy the Anglo-Venetian finance gangsters who won WW1 and set up the communist version of the Russian empire. In the context of 19th cent. weakness, and seeing that even a former great power like France has no independent history from the Napoleon III reign, when it submitted as a permanent junior partner in Anglo-Venetia, this is remarkable testimony to Chinese national resilience.

This is what makes China the biggest issue and question mark in the world today, when the western financiers are striving harder than ever for a world state and permanent enslavement of the the entire world population. Here nationalism is their number one problem and foe. China ultimately gave up the imperialist ambitions it pursued in antiquity in favour of an intense, as well as immense, national unity that just won't go away, even under the European jackboot.
Wow, what an interesting take on Chinese 20th century history. And by interesting I mean "interesting". Are you posting from an alternate reality where England and Venice somehow fought WW1 together and won? My favorite EU4 AAR actually features those two nations as (among the) winners of the 17th century but they haven't converted to Victoria 2 yet. It would be funny if you were a cross dimensional time traveler from that AAR's reality into ours. Anything else (that you live in the same reality as I do and yet still post this) is at this point too bizarre to be likely.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Fornadan

Lt. General
71 Badges
Jan 10, 2004
1.306
42
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Impire
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
The Korean intervention is probably the best place to draw the line, it showed that the PRC was capable of acting against another Great Power and get away with it.
 

nerd

hippie
6 Badges
Jun 3, 2010
628
192
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
The Korean intervention is probably the best place to draw the line, it showed that the PRC was capable of acting against another Great Power and get away with it.
Sorry, but the ability to fight a minor war in a proxies land with short land logistics, to a stagnant truce, against another power with 6 000 mile ocean logistics does not qualify as a great power.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Fornadan

Lt. General
71 Badges
Jan 10, 2004
1.306
42
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Impire
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
Sorry, but the ability to fight a minor war in a proxies land with short land logistics, to a stagnant truce, against another power with 6 000 mile ocean logistics does not qualify as a great power.
If you transpose the PRC with any other state at the time, how many could have achieved similar results? Probably not very many
 

nerd

hippie
6 Badges
Jun 3, 2010
628
192
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
If you transpose the PRC with any other state at the time, how many could have achieved similar results? Probably not very many
With a land border?

Gee......... Russia, India, Pakistan, South Africa, France, Mexico, GB, Even arguably, Canada, Spain or Turkey.
 
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions: