Is airpower really that necessary?

[Hardcore_gamer]

I remember Hearts of Iron 2's air units not really begin good for much. I mean yea sure you could use it and all of that but i never really found myself in a situation where i felt it had to use it or else i would loose.

Is this also the case in HOI 3 or can i wage wars with no air force and still stand a chance?

 

[Xendance]

In 1.2 I just concentrated on land things as Germany. I usually just landed an army of infantry on the British Isles, which was easy because the AI didn't really try to defend the channel, and by Barbarossa I had 1944+ era land doctrines and units too. I mopped the floor with the Soviets.

But in 1.3 I've noticed that the AI actually has ships in it's ports, and they almost always (like 95% always) manage to intercept my transport fleets which don't have any protection. So now I actually am researching air technologies, only interceptor techs though. My unity had dropped below 80% so I figured that I probably should do something about it

 

[unmerged(144305)]

Any type of combat support aircraft are unnecessary. I believe they take losses more than they give losses, and replacing those losses is an IC-drain.

I am a fan of NAV aircraft as an alternative to short-range navies.

I believe STR works reasonably well for both sides but I don't use it against the AI because it's unfair (the same reason I don't use airborne).

I believe TRANS aircraft are necessary and useful.

I believe INT aircraft are necessary to protect against AI strat bombing, but nothing else.

I believe Multi-Role are completely useless.

I believe CAGs are useful as sea-based NAVs.

take it for what it's worth.

 

[unmerged(165229)]

When using tactical bombers with my attacks on ground attack missions I routinely beat entrenched infantry with three times my numbers in mountains inflicting 50%+ casualties on similar tech levels. This assumes you can keep them supplied while supplying your troops, sometimes tricky in low infrastructure areas.

Admittedly this is on normal difficulty level.

 

[unmerged(53301)]

Air forces are pretty much useless as of now.

 

[Black_Shade]

I remember Hearts of Iron 2's air units not really begin good for much. I mean yea sure you could use it and all of that but i never really found myself in a situation where i felt it had to use it or else i would loose.

Is this also the case in HOI 3 or can i wage wars with no air force and still stand a chance?

In HoI2 airpower was gamebreakingly overpowered- there are AARs where people won the game with nothing but airpower and like 5 divisions to capture provinces. It was known as the deathstar strategy, where you would just ground attack enemy divisions into oblivion.

In HoI3, airpower is toned down A LOT (with the exception of strategic bombing). It is still useful for winning tough battles, but is not necessary for most countries in a '36 start. in later starts where you might be horribly outnumbered, airpower is vital to help preserve manpower and win otherwise unwinabble fights. Logistical striking your enemies supply lines is probably the strongest aspect of airpower right now, other than strategic bombing (which is really only powerful simply because you cannot stop the strats), as you can prevent your enemies from attacking or keeping up offensives. It might be good to read some of the german or japanese '44 AARs to see how useful airpower is.

The biggest problem right now is that some types of planes are completely useless. CAS and Multi-Role have no purpose in this game, which doesnt really make sense. At least in HoI2 you had reasons to build both- CAS had less range than TACs but had higher SA/HA values. Multi-role had equal air attack stats to interceptors but much greater soft attack and ground defense, making them ideal escorts for your CAS planes but costing slightly more. In HoI3, these plans have worse stats in every category compared to TACs and interceptors, making them 100% pointless. I also see little point in NAVs, who seem to do almost no damage to enemy fleets and hurt stacking penalties in battles where CAGs are involved.

 

[unmerged(147818)]

While ground attack doesnt instantly kill anything that moves in hoi 3, if you have air superiority you can do quite a bit of nasty stuff with logistical strikes, or bombing the ports to cut supplies from them. Of course this is not neccessary vs the AI, but i can imagine air power being important in multiplayer.

 

[unmerged(178438)]

Combat support bombings are way from unnecessary. The fights are won much easier, your units lose less men and organisation and you can even stop the enemy from fleeing an encirclement if you use your bombers wisely.

Personally, I'm a big fan of CAS-bombers. They are cheaper than tactical/strategical bombers and do about the same damage (less vs soft, more vs armored). But you need to do some upgrading first, especially considering their range.

You can use rockets for strategic bombing, too. They're cheap, they're fast to build, they do way more damage than conventional bombers and it doesn't matter if the enemy is using anti-air. Cons: you need to do lots on research before you can use them and you can use them only once. I'd focus on either rockets or bombers, not both.

edit: The only way to use NAVs right now is to statino them near one of your harbors and wait for an enemy landing operation. When it comes, use the NAV to attack the enemy ships until your fleet arrives. They're not completely useless but you might want to spend your IC somewhere else.

 

[unmerged(165229)]

Air forces are pretty much useless as of now.

What difficulty and who are you playing as? As Japan it cut a year off my conquest of China. One year instead of two on normal. I only used TAC and INT though. Also helped me break through the Soviet lines in a month despite being outnumbered. Infantry is very slow walking across Siberia though.

 

[unmerged(165229)]

While ground attack doesnt instantly kill anything that moves in hoi 3, if you have air superiority you can do quite a bit of nasty stuff with logistical strikes, or bombing the ports to cut supplies from them. Of course this is not neccessary vs the AI, but i can imagine air power being important in multiplayer.

This is true when not combined with an attack on the ground (infantry, armour, etc.), but when combined with a ground offensive it increased casualties by 150%. I'll stop spamming with my experiences now.

 

[unmerged(147818)]

This is true when not combined with an attack on the ground (infantry, armour, etc.), but when combined with a ground offensive it increased casualties by 150%. I'll stop spamming with my experiences now.

Heh you make me wanna try a game focusing almost exclusively on air power. Trouble is micromanaging all those squadrons, give AI that uses airpower well so we can sit back on our chairs and watch the enemy get bombed to bits (or the AI bombing noobs who thinks air power is useless to bits).

 

[unmerged(165229)]

Heh you make me wanna try a game focusing almost exclusively on air power. Trouble is micromanaging all those squadrons, give AI that uses airpower well so we can sit back on our chairs and watch the enemy get bombed to bits (or the AI bombing noobs who thinks air power is useless to bits).

Ah, very true. I love to micromanage never giving the AI control over anything. This means I have to pause more than most people, but the AI can't screw up my war effort either. Give me one infantry division and two tactical bombers and I'll take any province without a land fort defended by up to three divisions of any type.

 

[Darth Moose]

loki100's Barbarossa as SU campaign also shows the benefits of a good airforce. I mostly use TACs for ground attack, but he has shown that interdiction and logistical strikes can enervate an enemy quite fast, leading to an easy victory. Even by depleted Red Army divisions against full-strength but out-of-supply Wermacht divisions.

 

[CrusherX7]

I'm surprised someone made this thread. While I'm certainly no pro at this game, NAVs are very valuable for Germany/Italy to counter Allied naval power.

While NAVs aren't that good at hitting fleets out at sea, the AI rarely has the common sense to move ships out of a port that's being hit by NAV Port Strike missions. You should avoid attacking ports that have large fleets at them, and also have Interceptors available to fight enemy aircraft that may try to intercept, but if you pay attention to those points, you'll certainly do much more damage then you'll suffer.

As Italy, I've done more damage to the UK navy with NAVs than I have with my own navy. It makes me wish the sunken ship list included sinkings done by aircraft.

Oh, and NAVs are also much better at convoy raiding than subs. The only reason I don't scrap my subs is because using them on convoy raiding will increase my naval combat experience without risking my surface ships.

 

[unmerged(52507)]

Air units are not useless, but they are in most cases poor value for money. I use them because as a micromanager some bombers rather than a few more corps of infantry saves time and i more fun. Only usful for the big majors really. France cant usually afford any additions to its starting force.

And Navs can help the axis redress the naval balance a little. They obviously arrive quickly and are therefore useful in a naval firebrigade role.

 

[Alex_brunius]

While ground attack doesnt instantly kill anything that moves in hoi 3, if you have air superiority you can do quite a bit of nasty stuff with logistical strikes, or bombing the ports to cut supplies from them. Of course this is not neccessary vs the AI, but i can imagine air power being important in multiplayer.

Correct.
In our previous multiplayer game I was playing France and Germany left Netherlands to be and only captured Belgium. The Panzers soon broke through my lines in northern france when 4 old tac bombers with no techs or upgrades stepped in. Logistically bombing the only two bottleneck provinces bringing supplies and fuel to the massive German Panzer army it was out of supplies within a few weeks and unable to attack.

This forced a complete (and embarrassing) withdrawal out of Belgium away from the territory without supply until the infrastructure could be rebuilt and Netherlands could be captured to provide alternative routes. I estimate that it prolonged my resistance with at least 4 months.

Logistically bombing ports after an amphibious assault is in my experience so far even worse.

Another note was on the very hard single player campaign I was playing I foolishly thought I could ignore interceptors. That was before the French and British AI attacked me with 10 groups of 2-3 tac/cas each and grinded some of my units down to 10% strength over a month or three.

 

[madprofmike]

i myself found airpower very useful, but it does need alil tweeking.

 

[unmerged(128095)]

CAS is pretty useless, unfortunately. It doesn't really seem to make that much difference combatwise if you use it or not, and once you break the initial line of defense and rebase it closer to the front, it takes forever for supplies to catch up with it.

Interceptors have their uses, especially after DOW on Poland to keep British STR in check. after that, not so much.

NAV on the otherhand, have use as convoy raiders and naval strike missions. Subs are pretty much useless in the game, and you can pluck a convoy or two every now and again with NAV (and TAC), although they use alot of fuel, but that has never been an issue when playing Germany.

I would like to add, it would be nice to know what naval combat ships you sink with them. In the combat log info screen, it doesn't list losses to aircraft, IIRC.

 

[Silversurfer427]

I use TAC INT STR and TRAN only...
TAC to pin rebels in occupied territorial uprisings, and to pin bad guys i.e. France, England etc during blitzkriegs and followups and other general purpose blowing up of things...naval, ports, trees, monkeys etc
INT at area air superiority to stop the other STR attacks
STR bombs logistics, strategic, runway craters...
TRAN for supply of my spearheads and far flung garrisons...
I research the max for each and dont have any problems with this setup...
I always control all...

 

[unmerged(5961)]

Airpower is useful. Especially interceptors. I hate getting bombed.

In battles that last a long time, tactical bombers make a noticeable difference.