Is AI Soviet victory possible?

[Me_]

Sometimes when I do other things on my PC I turn the game on, choose Uruguay or Paraguay and let the AI play out the war on its own with various random settings.

Always eventualy a war breaks out between Germany and USSR. I've seen democratic, fasist and imperial Germany start this war. I've seen them do so alone, with Great Britain as ally, with Austria-Hungary, with Italy, with Japan, With France, with Poland as allies. I've seen USSR bring various allies as well.

One thing is constant the USSR always wins. Even if the war is a followup to a war in the West that is now being invaded by GB or USA, even a rump Germany always manages to march to Moscow and beyond.

And if it is historical setting I use, the USSR always falls before 1945, sometimes way before.

Why is USSR this weak and this incapable of defending? Is AI USSR at all ever capable of defeating Germany?

 

[-=Cheburashka=-]

Maybe developers simply dont like communists? I noticed that almoust all focus trees for communists ways are not interesting and dont give any good bonuses, only for defence on core territories, which even conflicts with communist ideology (internationalism as one of its key elements).

Soviet problems began with latest patches (1.9.x). Before that AI USSR beats AI Germany up to 1943.

 

[Telenil]

The Comintern is supposed to lose unless the Allies manage to establish a second front in the West. How do the Allies typically do in these games?

Non-historical is a mixed bag from what I've seen. Germany can get stucked early in Czechoslovakia, especially if everyone joins the Allies once the German attack Poland. On the other hand, the US may never join the war if Japan leaves them alone, and the West loses its late-game punch without them.

 

[Me_]

The Comintern is supposed to lose unless the Allies manage to establish a second front in the West. How do the Allies typically do in these games?

Horribly In historical games US invasions of France usually fail, it's typically a stalemate but I've seen Germany take over GB a couple of times. I recall one or two quite successful US invasions but they were too late to save USSR.

In ahistorical games it all comes down to what GB is doing - I find that Edvard VIII coming to power seems to be the most common outcome of Random setting, although this can have multiple results with GB siding with various sides. All of them spell doom for the USSR, but at whose hands varies.

The most recent run saw Germany as part of Międzymorze and Austria-Hungary as part of Pact of Rome soundly trash USSR and then turn on each other (A-H won with Italian and GB help) with the US being at war with most of Europe almost from the start but not launching any successful naval invasions.

Oddly, I know that AI can do a good naval invasion, because I've seen Germany do so against GB, GB do so against US and US do so against all of Commonwealth of Nations one by one under MacArthur, but US landings in France seem to be cursed.

All in all, I find it to be fascinating to start a game, go on to do something else (e.g. watch a movie) and then come back to a crazy alternate WW2 and try to figure out what happened.

 

[TalyonUngol]

In my game, Germany is stalemated against the Russians and the USA has invaded Germany really hard.

 

[Mister Analyst]

And if it is historical setting I use, the USSR always falls before 1945, sometimes way before.

Why is USSR this weak and this incapable of defending?

@Me_
You might find this podcat quote from HOI4 La Resistance Dev Diary 24 - AI & Features Updates to be enlightening -

The second thing is also related to Germany (its WW2 after all). For HOI (no matter the version really) we have always striven for a balance where Germany defeats the Soviet Union if the allies do not take pressure off by invading. This ensures that all of the big sides need to be active and if played by a player you need to step up.

 

[Me_]

@Me_
You might find this podcat quote from HOI4 La Resistance Dev Diary 24 - AI & Features Updates to be enlightening -

Enlightening indeed. Quite a disappointment then that the Allies are so incapable in practice, but good to know it is deliberate design that the Soviets lose.

 

[kettyo]

I have seen a single ultimate Comintern victory so far. It went as Germany and his satellites/victims were puppeted by the USSR early so the Allies practically had to fight a combined Axis/Comintern force under commie banner. The commies have steamrolled the entirety of Eurasia-Africa so i called that game a commie victory.

But the vast majority of games end in either Axis or Allied victory.

 

[kettyo]

I think USSR is weaker because the German AI is set to build way more planes. And also this is the main reason why they get strong if they can puppet Germany early enough and are supported by the red Luftwaffe (secondary reason are red Wehrmacht panzers).

In a nutshell: Air Wings Matter.

 

[sreckom92]

I just finished a game with Yugoslavia. Germans attacked the Soviets in mid-1941, like they did historically.
They declared war on me few months later.
I defended for 2 months, dealing huge damage to Axis troops.
However, I ran out of fuel, my airforce was wiped out and artillery decimated.
I lost most of my territory, only managing to hold forts along Danube, Drina and Morava rivers.
Things were slowly going out of hand, but then the winged hussars arr.. Allies arrived and opened up a front against the Axis. We couldn't make advances for quite some time, but we bled the enemy manpower down severely.
Soviets were slowly withdrawing their lines, losing Minsk, Kiev and Leningrad. Eventually, by mid-1942, Germans were no longer able to advance.
Basically, from that point, it was mopping game for the Soviets, where the enemy was eventually chased back to Berlin.

Like others have pointed out, Germany cannot sustain 2 serious fronts in Europe.
As Yugoslavia, I dealt 1.1 million casualties to Germans, with over 2 million to Axis total. And that's not counting the damage they received from the Allies.
That's a severe blow, which forced the Axis to lose momentum against the Soviet Union.
It's basically the only way for the Soviet AI to win.

 

[Me_]

Interestingly, after I got La Resistance and Bosphorus, on my first hands-off test run (historical) the Soviets stopped Germany and pushed back with no second Allied front. Their progress was slow, and they only managed to get to Berlin by the time Allies invaded Italy and France, but overall Soviets were faring way better (even pushing through most of Middle East and Africa after Vichy France invaded Turkey from Syria all the way to the Soviet border and the Soviets responded in kind). I wonder if part of the reason is that the NKVD and SMERSH national spirits are dead weight for Soviets without La Resistance, but can be helpful with it.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Yes it is. If you need to long the Americans as well as Commonwealth-Countrys and French will open a second front and third front. And the Sowjets have 3 big advantages against the Axis:

1. Manpower is about 12 or 15:1 against the Axis
2. They have more Troops but with old equipment
3. New Troops will normaly get new and Lend-Lease Equipment, which annul the advantage of the Axis.

 

[N3UTR0N]

The Comintern is supposed to lose unless the Allies manage to establish a second front in the West. How do the Allies typically do in these games?

Non-historical is a mixed bag from what I've seen. Germany can get stucked early in Czechoslovakia, especially if everyone joins the Allies once the German attack Poland. On the other hand, the US may never join the war if Japan leaves them alone, and the West loses its late-game punch without them.

Which IMO is a horrible game balancing.

 

[shachazhul]

The main reason the Soviets lose is their strong desire to throw divisions at the enemy right at the start of the war. They don't stop doing this even when divisions are at <70% equipment, and when they finally stop, the Germans will just casually walk through them... I've seen a lot of games where the Reich captures Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad in 8-10 months and just can't reach Urals to capitulate USSR because of the strong defense they made (but obviously too late). But why USSR doesn't fortify right at the beginning? Of course the second front matters a lot for Soviet success in the east, but I think forcing AI to lose that hard is just not right. I like playing some minor nations and aligning to USSR (like Iran or even Baltic states) and I can't really do anything for them to not die.

 

[Znail]

The problem lies in making Russia weak enough that Germany has an early advantage, but then Russia needs to come back some how, but that would require some special mechanism that makes Russia artificially weak early but stronger later. Right now so is there no such mechanism so they have the choise of either making Russia strong enough to win, but then Russia will simply beat Germany or weaker so that Germany can win after a long struggle. The allies are the key factor that can turn that tide, but it's not a sure thing that it happens.

 

[shachazhul]

The problem lies in making Russia weak enough that Germany has an early advantage, but then Russia needs to come back some how

The Germans have "Operation Barbarossa" buff (+5% attack/defense against USSR I believe?) right at the beginning of the war and lose it after some time. I think a good solution will be making it stronger (to like +10-20% buff) and removing its effects gradually (like Sino-Japanese "Marco Polo" thing).

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Yes, therefore you have the Regulations-Thing which you can say that and that get Advantages and the others not. And that Problem will be solved with and after Patch 1.11 "Barbarossa" as well as the next DLC´s which are comming out.

The best thing to solve that is if you play fully Manually (not with your Generals to get more XP):

1. Set the Regulations-Thing for the Comintern and Allies to max Bonuses
2. Set the Difficulty to the highest level
3. Play with Mods which make corrections etc.

First things are implemented already for that, if you let play your Generals and not rush throug Manually.

 

[KV5_Radio_Operator]

Maybe developers simply dont like communists? I noticed that almoust all focus trees for communists ways are not interesting and dont give any good bonuses, only for defence on core territories, which even conflicts with communist ideology (internationalism as one of its key elements).

Soviet problems began with latest patches (1.9.x). Before that AI USSR beats AI Germany up to 1943.

its not this deep bro

 

[mpop]

Ai soviet is possible.. My game is so messed up as ironman without mods that japan lost war in china in 1941, attacked Philippines. US entered war and Germany was defeated late 1941 never could take France because of US.. Russia attacked Greece in 1942 and the allies lost. I rather want them to make the AI consistent and not mess like this or I have to restart the game because I can't do anything if i Joined axis and Germany is already gone in 1941.

 

[ThePHD]

I understand what they're trying to do but the Soviets are weak to the point where it's sort of ridiculous. It doesn't matter if you're playing historical or non historical. I HAVE SEEN THEM LOSE TO POLAND many times. This is not acceptable.

1. Their air force gets slaughtered every game
2. They build nothing but the earlier infantry equipment which puts them at a huge disadvantage
3. They don't build anywhere near enough divisions to stop Germany

The Soviet Union was a juggernaut. They should be able to put up a fight without a player controlled UK or USA invading. You can crank up their advantages all the way and they still lose. You can lend lease them the entire game and they still lose. They aren't even able to push back if there is a second front. Germany will still capitulate them eventually provided you don't kill Germany first. They 100% need some kind of buff. I'm fine with Germany being more powerful . Just not to extent they are now.