Hey just wanted to hear. Playing "For Odin!" in the new world and saw this, is this something that was added or is it a glitch?
Is a vassal, has a vassal. Intended or bug?
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Working as intended. Subjects keep their subjects with the exception of Personal Unions.
IE if you vassalize Portugal, they will remain overlord of Brazil CN, but if you PU Aragon, you also get the PU over Naples
EDIT: apparently this is incorrect, as per dev below. I apologize
IE if you vassalize Portugal, they will remain overlord of Brazil CN, but if you PU Aragon, you also get the PU over Naples
EDIT: apparently this is incorrect, as per dev below. I apologize
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Yes, but this is a vassal having a vassal, no PU or CN. I thought vassals weren't allowed to have vassals of their own.
I've certainly seen it happen, especially in the Mexico area. Don't know if it is intended though.
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This is not true, if you vassalize a country all its subjects are set free, including CNs. If you full annex them, then you inherit all their subjects.
For the ops case, this is usually the result of a failed independence war that was ongoing when the former master was vassalized
For the ops case, this is usually the result of a failed independence war that was ongoing when the former master was vassalized
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It's a bug almost certainly. They've done their best to do away with yo dawg subject chains because it messes with too many mechanics and leads to broken outcomes like "subject of subject can never declare independence" and AE going to subject nations that can't be targeted by coalitions.
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In a 1.14.x game I force vassalised an OPM Aragon and they kept their CN. In the same game I annexed Aztec and took over their vassal as a vassal and not as a protectorate.
@ForzaA are these bugs?
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Full annexing giving you their subjects is consistent with every previous patch for years. The general rule is full annex = get their non-PU subjects, vassalize = other vassals go free.
I'm not sure about the CN vs vassal, in past patches you'd keep the CN if they form it after becoming your vassal, but not if they made it before.
As far as I can tell vassals having vassals is not WAD in any circumstance.
I'm not sure about the CN vs vassal, in past patches you'd keep the CN if they form it after becoming your vassal, but not if they made it before.
As far as I can tell vassals having vassals is not WAD in any circumstance.
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This is correct. I've just recently tested it with colonies.
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As intended, at least for Nahuatl, for which having vassals is very important. Force vassalised countries keep their vassals.
The same principle applies. Subjects can have all forms of subjects with exception to PUs.
Thank you for the report, and discussion.
As far as I know, the following is the intended behaviour;
"When you make a nation into your vassal or protectorate, they should lose all of their subjects.
When you make a nation your Personal Union junior partner, they should keep their vassals, marches and protectorates, while their Personal Unions transfer to you."
When 1.16 is released, that is how it should all work, again; an issue was fixed and is being tested on the matter.
As far as I know, the following is the intended behaviour;
"When you make a nation into your vassal or protectorate, they should lose all of their subjects.
When you make a nation your Personal Union junior partner, they should keep their vassals, marches and protectorates, while their Personal Unions transfer to you."
When 1.16 is released, that is how it should all work, again; an issue was fixed and is being tested on the matter.
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I reckon this must be something to do with the flowers wars cb, or something to do with nahautl, because I've seen it happen many times in this region and didn't question it beforehand. I've not seen it happen anywhere else.
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I think thats because Flower war CB makes AI much, much more inclined to vassalize stuff in the first place, whereas usually vassalization happens somewhat rarely, and specially so when the overlord themselves are small enough to be vassalized, and that AI loves to demand vassals to be released, when they don't want to take more land for themselves
Yeah, and I like that they try to pass the reforms now because of it, I was only saying that the result of a vassal having a vassal could be the casus belli, but then again, what do I know
If this is the way it will work in Mexico too... ooh, so all I needed to do is vassalize any Nahuatl and they never recover? Losing all their vassals will remove their doom sacrifices mechanic. I think I just found out how to beat them down without needing to take them apart piece by piece. <cue manaiacal laugh, muwahaha!!>
If you vassalize Portugal, their CNs become free. A vassal can have vassals if it annexes someone with vassals.
I thought this was intended. If you vassallize Byzantium before they get annexed, they keep Athens as vassal (very briefly, they diplo-annex it as soon as possible).
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You can't vassalize a nation which has vassals. Byzantium cannot be vassalized if they have Athens as a vassal.
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