Ironman - Scandinavia

[MadlockUK]

So I've been trying to form Scandinavia as Sweden initially then Denmark. Any suggestions on how to do this? I tried as Sweden (from 20th June 1448) then get embroiled in wars where my army gets destroyed by Russian doomstacks usually. After a few attempts, I went as Denmark which was better but it's hard to integrate Sweden and Norway without going through wars that inevitably push Sweden away. Thoughts?

 

[gia257]

before favors, 1444, sweden, ally england/novgorod/teutons/scotland, austria is awesome but needs to rival denmark

you cant ally all of them, it will be based on rivals

destroy useless stuff and build galleys, you want lots of galleys, also build to forcelimit

if you got england thats it, attack, scotland is hard, but they got boats too

denmark starts with rebels so keep an eye on them, denmark could lose to them or you could declare just as they are fighting on your border and then you snipe the danish stack with low morale and kill them

without a snipe you want lund mothballed, you will wait by skaraborg, you will move to tioharad in a way that they will arrive there by the first of the month, declare, and snipe the mothballed lund

from there take the rest of danish land and plant your galleys to cover the strait, then wipe norway

if you declare right away after a snipe you wont have the galleys ready, only leave port to kill lone boats, always keep two stacks in different sea zones so you can lure the enemy navy away with one, and move ever closer to the strait with the other, leave port on the final days of a siege so you get the bonus, then return to port before the enemy returns

if you go with novgorod, muscovy should attack soon, dishonor alliance then


develop till then, mark enemy lands as interest and get claims hoping for a war (let denmark lose manpower, save yours), get quantity


after favors i dont know (hopefully it doesnt use that system), it would take so long for anyone to bother joining your wars

 

[Mutagen_Prime]

Pure infantry armies are viable early on with Sweden's +20% infantry combat tradition. Dump your starting diplomatic and administrative capital into Dalaskogen to reap an early-game economic boost courtesy of said province's amazing +5 copper production 'gold mine.'

And of course mothball all forts/drill tenacioualy until your web of independence-supporting alliances is ripe for exploiting. The aim is to min-max our economic and military output right away so we can punch above our weight.

Your first objective after independence should be Danzig, Memel and Riga to the south. Make sure you maintain constant positive relations/an alliance with Poland to consolidate your ownership of these vital assets. Then go for Neva and Novgorod to siphon more trade to the Baltic. This will give you a powerful trade-orientated economy that will see you through the rest of your objectives.

 

[MadlockUK]

before favors, 1444, sweden, ally england/novgorod/teutons/scotland, austria is awesome but needs to rival denmark

you cant ally all of them, it will be based on rivals

destroy useless stuff and build galleys, you want lots of galleys, also build to forcelimit

if you got england thats it, attack, scotland is hard, but they got boats too

denmark starts with rebels so keep an eye on them, denmark could lose to them or you could declare just as they are fighting on your border and then you snipe the danish stack with low morale and kill them

without a snipe you want lund mothballed, you will wait by skaraborg, you will move to tioharad in a way that they will arrive there by the first of the month, declare, and snipe the mothballed lund

from there take the rest of danish land and plant your galleys to cover the strait, then wipe norway

if you declare right away after a snipe you wont have the galleys ready, only leave port to kill lone boats, always keep two stacks in different sea zones so you can lure the enemy navy away with one, and move ever closer to the strait with the other, leave port on the final days of a siege so you get the bonus, then return to port before the enemy returns

if you go with novgorod, muscovy should attack soon, dishonor alliance then


develop till then, mark enemy lands as interest and get claims hoping for a war (let denmark lose manpower, save yours), get quantity


after favors i dont know (hopefully it doesnt use that system), it would take so long for anyone to bother joining your wars

When taking on Denmark, should I go pure infantry to take them on?? When I've gone up against them I end up focusing on Denmark then playing whack a mole with Norway's armies who will take over most of the non-fort project provinces.

Pure infantry armies are viable early on with Sweden's +20% infantry combat tradition. Dump your starting diplomatic and administrative capital into Dalaskogen to reap an early-game economic boost courtesy of said province's amazing +5 copper production 'gold mine.'

And of course mothball all forts/drill tenacioualy until your web of independence-supporting alliances is ripe for exploiting. The aim is to min-max our economic and military output right away so we can punch above our weight.

Your first objective after independence should be Danzig, Memel and Riga to the south. Make sure you maintain constant positive relations/an alliance with Poland to consolidate your ownership of these vital assets. Then go for Neva and Novgorod to siphon more trade to the Baltic. This will give you a powerful trade-orientated economy that will see you through the rest of your objectives.

I'm trying to avoid confronting Muscovy as their numbers are too great for Sweden to take on. I find taking Neva inevitably embroils me in war with them. Also, Gia has suggested I go all Galley, if you suggest a trade based economy, shouldn't Baroques be the order of the day?

 

[gia257]

When taking on Denmark, should I go pure infantry to take them on?? When I've gone up against them I end up focusing on Denmark then playing whack a mole with Norway's armies who will take over most of the non-fort project provinces.



I'm trying to avoid confronting Muscovy as their numbers are too great for Sweden to take on. I find taking Neva inevitably embroils me in war with them. Also, Gia has suggested I go all Galley, if you suggest a trade based economy, shouldn't Baroques be the order of the day?

all galley is only for the independence which you claimed was hard for you, because denmark+norway should have more ships than you, after that you dont need all galley, you can have whatever navy you think is enough for your area, you do want to be the naval king though, because the strait is your main defense (anyone sieging forts there is as good as dead due to insta wipe if they lose)

If you will let warscore tick and get only independence (and perhaps Lund), you only need to ninja Lund and defend the striat with your fleet while you take over norway (dont let them capture land or denmark will be able to build on your side)

If you want to capture Fyn or the danish capital you need to wipe the danish an have at least one transport. then the first thing you do is get naval supremacy and park at the strait, then you wipe the danish, then you capture fyn, then lolland, now the danish cant reinforce their capital, then you can capture the capital safely. Its best when they have their army at gotland/bornholm when you have naval supremacy, as they wont be able to get out.

about all infantry, horseys have flanking so one shouldnt be too bad, specially because horses should have more pips on tech 3? but yeah all infantry is better in general, and cheaper to keep

about muscovy, make sure to grab at least one of novgorod's cores, then you can vassalize and reconquest most of muscovy. Same could be done with threaten war and livonian/teutons. If so grab one Lithuanian culture province so you can get all of Lithuania quickly after the commonwealth is formed.

oh also, you may want to delete forts and build in proper chokepoints at one point or another, the fewest forts (you can hold your land with) the better, you definitely want them inside the straits so you can insta wipe enemies

 

[Ulfing]

all galley is only for the independence which you claimed was hard for you,

OP said the Sweden start was 1448, so there is no independence war. Starting as an already independent Sweden is a RNG fest as most of the time the AI is more interested in partitioning your territory rather than allying with you.

Just start as Sweden in 1444. Restart until Denmark has powerful rivals (England or Poland are best, Lith if they don't get PU'd. Burgandy won't support independence as they can't reach your territory, nor will Hungary. Scotland's support is a bit meh, unless its also backed up by England.)

Build relations with Denmark's rivals, get them to support your independence, and then declare. If you're lucky enough to get England supporting you and they're not dragged into the French war / Civil war then the English navy will do all the work for you.

Half the time Denmark only allies with OPMs or Teutons, who will have their own problems with Poland. The other half they ally with Muscovy, so unless you can get Poland/Lith onside, its probably easier to just restart. Lith can't take on Muscovy alone, but you can get Muscovy to peace out by giving them Lith land.

 

[Rocketskates]

Make Muscovy your friend, from the very start. Take your time declaring indepedance, never help Denmark, let your provinces occupied if needed be. Not one swedish troop should fall in a danish war.
England will usually support you, keep that up, but keep in my it will be slapped hard by frenchies fast. Lithuania 1 out of 4 starts when it goes alone instead of forming Union with Poland. Sometimes Scotland steps in. Strike after a lost/costy danish war. Galley spam is the past, you need an army to take a fort to lock danes on their islands. Go for early mil teach, make a good choice of troops. Offensive/defensive matter. (fighting a siege battle with defensive pips is bad).

Ive managed to befriend and eventually Union muscovy. Pay very close attention to their interest areas and to their leader. Build your armies to max limit always, that way the AI shows some willingness to accept your territorial interests. Never take vital interest a province they already did (red), can try with signifact (yellow). Its a bit of a muscle work and testing the AI. The goal is to make them interested in Lithuania/Crimea/Hordes instead of the Novgorodian lands that remains. Militaristic AI is bad news, diplomatic is good. This is why you will keep your relations up from the get go, they will more likely to accept you and your claims and conquer lands somewhere else, meanwhile you can expand so you wont become an inviting dinner for it later.