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CzechKronner

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Paradox, how about you give us a choice to use monthly/half-yearly/yearly saves?

The game is pretty stable (by now) so saving the game every month is quite useless AND time-consuming for Ironman players.
 

Immortal88

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I have a good Samsung EVO SSD drive, i5 2500k, 8gb ram a gtx 670 and it is quite noticeable for me. Any known way to reduce the time lag apart from disabling the compression?

Or maybe it's because I save to the steam cloud, I'll have to try local ironman saves next time.
 

Amroth

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What exactly is your gripe? If its that you dont want the progress saved every month maybe ironman isn't for you, if its that your computer is having trouble with it saving every month then perhaps ironman isn't for you lol if it doesn't save monthly it just makes it even more exploitable.
 

Meridian235

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Perhaps those of us who have solid state drives are fortunate, but I recommend you invest in one. They just aren't that expensive anymore, and if you are committed enough to your gaming hobby to make forum posts, it would likely be a wise investment.
 

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What exactly is your gripe? If its that you dont want the progress saved every month maybe ironman isn't for you, if its that your computer is having trouble with it saving every month then perhaps ironman isn't for you lol if it doesn't save monthly it just makes it even more exploitable.

Maybe his gripe is that even with pretty good write speed, saving alone costs hours if you play a game from 1444-1821. If you complete a playthrough in less than 20 hours, 10% of your play time can be spent on saving alone, compared to less than 1% with yearly autosaves.

That's a big difference, and it irks me that people can't understand why someone might want to gripe about the achievement-locking mode necessarily adding hours of play time with a marginal (at best) assurance of no cheating, considering the people who actually want to cheat can still save scum, still save edit, or just SAM it entirely.

Your argument also fails in that monthly autosaves make it easier to save scum certain things, such as large PUs or inconvenient events.

Even with a SSD I'm seeing ~1 second save times, a bit more later on. If you don't have that, it's awful, and of course my SSD build is on Linux because once upon a time, this game honored its assertion of compatibility with that platform :/.

Regardless, asking people to do the equivalent of sitting in place doing nothing for 1-3 hours, but acting like it's okay because it happens over a longer period of time, is perplexing. If someone "doesn't mind", that's fine, people subject themselves to worse things in life intentionally. However, calling someone out as if not wanting to spend 1-3 hours extra doing nothing isn't valid?
 

Immortal88

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To be fair you are exaggerating quite grossly when suggesting that saving takes hours of time if you add it up. That's not the problem, it just annoys the game-flow and especially on high speeds I often want to pause right when the save occurs and things feel just weird due to the lag. Now if you play in very fast speeds because there's nothing to do or you just monitor income a month flies by extremely fast and those lags get really out of hand.
 

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To be fair you are exaggerating quite grossly when suggesting that saving takes hours of time if you add it up. That's not the problem, it just annoys the game-flow and especially on high speeds I often want to pause right when the save occurs and things feel just weird due to the lag. Now if you play in very fast speeds because there's nothing to do or you just monitor income a month flies by extremely fast and those lags get really out of hand.

No, "to be fair" my statement is accurate. Even a 1 second save time = roughly 75 minutes per playthrough just on monthly saves (not counting others). Without a SSD saves are slower than that, and we climb over 2 hours very quickly.

You can claim it's not a problem, but to some people it is a problem because 2 hours is in fact 10% of what they spend on a playthrough.

You can pretend the time lost isn't there by distributing it, but that doesn't make it go away in reality. If that's not a problem to you, then great, but don't go spouting nonsense about gross exaggerations; the time loss is real, and it bothers some of us.
 

Amroth

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Maybe his gripe is that even with pretty good write speed, saving alone costs hours if you play a game from 1444-1821. If you complete a playthrough in less than 20 hours, 10% of your play time can be spent on saving alone, compared to less than 1% with yearly autosaves.

That's a big difference, and it irks me that people can't understand why someone might want to gripe about the achievement-locking mode necessarily adding hours of play time with a marginal (at best) assurance of no cheating, considering the people who actually want to cheat can still save scum, still save edit, or just SAM it entirely.

Your argument also fails in that monthly autosaves make it easier to save scum certain things, such as large PUs or inconvenient events.

Even with a SSD I'm seeing ~1 second save times, a bit more later on. If you don't have that, it's awful, and of course my SSD build is on Linux because once upon a time, this game honored its assertion of compatibility with that platform :/.

Regardless, asking people to do the equivalent of sitting in place doing nothing for 1-3 hours, but acting like it's okay because it happens over a longer period of time, is perplexing. If someone "doesn't mind", that's fine, people subject themselves to worse things in life intentionally. However, calling someone out as if not wanting to spend 1-3 hours extra doing nothing isn't valid?
That really is the most ridiculous thing Ive heard, for people in that position there is one very simple and very obvious question they should ask themselves before starting the game. Do i wish to trade the time that the saving will take in order to get shiny achievements or am i unwilling and therefore should play without the ironman auto save and not get the achievements. Answer the question and you've sorted out the problem.
 

Amroth

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No, "to be fair" my statement is accurate. Even a 1 second save time = roughly 75 minutes per playthrough just on monthly saves (not counting others). Without a SSD saves are slower than that, and we climb over 2 hours very quickly.

You can claim it's not a problem, but to some people it is a problem because 2 hours is in fact 10% of what they spend on a playthrough.

You can pretend the time lost isn't there by distributing it, but that doesn't make it go away in reality. If that's not a problem to you, then great, but don't go spouting nonsense about gross exaggerations; the time loss is real, and it bothers some of us.
These people you are talking about need to consider whether they should be playing the game in a setting that requires monthly auto saves to try and cut down on cheating the achievements.
 

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That really is the most ridiculous thing Ive heard, for people in that position there is one very simple and very obvious question they should ask themselves before starting the game. Do i wish to trade the time that the saving will take in order to get shiny achievements or am i unwilling and therefore should play without the ironman auto save and not get the achievements. Answer the question and you've sorted out the problem.

If the point of the thread is to complain about the additional time added for pursuing achievements absent any true utility from the downtime added, then it is more ridiculous to ignore that point than anything I've said in this thread to this point.

These people you are talking about need to consider whether they should be playing the game in a setting that requires monthly auto saves to try and cut down on cheating the achievements.

Saying something non-sequitur to the post you're quoting is the opposite of a strong argument.

OP's complaint is that the ironman save spam requirement is useless and time-consuming. Both have merit:

1. Time consuming: Yes, this one has been shown easily enough, I gave rough math that under-represents save time lost above.

2. Useless: This is more debatable, but a strong case for monthly autosaving being useless can be made. Ostensibly, the purpose of it is to prevent "cheating" to get the achievements. However, any number of methods can be applied to get the achievements in spite of that limitation; SAM, save-edits, end-process save scumming (ironman actually makes this less tedious ironically, since normally a player doesn't save spam and have a convenient 1 month to go back.) are all available to anybody who wants to cheat the achievements, and these are trivially done even by kids that wish to cheat.

But what if you don't wish to cheat? If that's the case, the utility between monthly and yearly autosaves is virtually nil; simply blocking the console and in-game loading previous saves would accomplish the entirety of what ironman actually provides today. However, with yearly or less frequent autosaves, it would accomplish it with hours less time spent per full playthrough.

So, the OP points this out, that forcing monthly autosaves adds no significant utility from an anti-cheat or game legitimacy perspective but has a large time cost, and you're trying to call this argument out as ridiculous? The only ridiculous thing here is that the OP's assertion is somehow hard for people to grasp, and people arguing in favor of the current mechanic routinely ignore the arguments made against it and quickly resort to ad hominems.

If you're suggesting OP should just play with ironman-style settings, use self-discipline, and then SAM himself the achievements, then I and even a developer would agree with you. However, it's still valid to point out that forcing monthly saves in ironman doesn't add anything of value that I've seen anyone present and has a large time cost. Even if you set it to yearly or even every 5 years, the only way you could "cheat" would be to deliberately end process, which you can do right now at either the month cutoff or interrupting the cloud sync to go back to pre-sync status.

I'd rather the game flow more smoothly for honest players than have it be *slightly* harder, but still pathetically easy, to cheat for dishonest players.
 

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That really is the most ridiculous thing Ive heard, for people in that position there is one very simple and very obvious question they should ask themselves before starting the game. Do i wish to trade the time that the saving will take in order to get shiny achievements or am i unwilling and therefore should play without the ironman auto save and not get the achievements. Answer the question and you've sorted out the problem.

Restating the terms of the current trade off isn't a rebuttal. If Ironman required players to cut off a toe, your statement would be equally accurate and equally pointless: "LOL, people just need to figure out whether they're willing to self-mutilate in return for shiny achievements. Simple!"

The question is whether the trade off is worthwhile. The answer to that question appears to be no. The achievement tail wags the gameplay dog, and the tail doesn't even seem to get anything meaningful out of the exercise.