Ironman mode still disabling itself...

[thissideup]

Except that "we think" can mean "we fiddled with it and hopefully it'll do" which can mean "we hope". Both mean that they are not sure and neither implies that they worked on it/worked on something unrelated. It's not even you reading too deeply into their words - it is literally wrong understanding of language on your side.

Uhm. No? And besides my initial point was that it is possible that people might derive a promise from Wiz's statement, that whatever they did will fix this problem. I wasn't saying that this is a "correct understanding of language" - which is an absurd notion anyway, even more so when people with English as a secondary language are reading here. I was just hinting that it is un-cautious marketing, as people could whine. And if you think that stuff like this is irrelevant and people/fanboys/fangirls/etc. will not read poop into everything devs might say, then you probably haven't either read these forums very well or never thought why developers usually are saying nothing at all about their projects *glinting at Ubisoft here*.

 

[shad321]

Ok i was able to restore my save thanks to my situation
1, I've played EU4 on Saturday on my home comp with good net cable connection.
2. On Monday i was in delegation outside of home, and i played on my laptop from this save..
3. My Ironman broke down and my steam cloud save don't have ironman loaded.
4. Paradox service asked to check my steam folder C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\userdata<YOUR STEAM ID>\236850\remote\save games\ to see if moving this remote save to local one will help.
5. It did not.
6. But when i returned to home, i checked my catalog on my Home computer and i copied save from there into a local one...
7. After this i'v got my save back to ironman from Saturday.
8. It is a Local, not Cloud now, but i lost only about 6-8 hours of play, and Yesterday i was able to receive Silk Road achievement, so i confirmed this is an Ironman indeed

Thanks Paradox for suggestion. I hope new patch will fix this bug.

 

[Kwami]

Talk about feeling entitled.

I don't see how wanting a game to work as advertised makes one "entitled". We are, after all, paying customers.

 

[thissideup]

I don't see how wanting a game to work as advertised makes one "entitled". We are, after all, paying customers.

Well, you get what you paid for.

You might dislike what you've purchased. You might have had hopes that it would magically be completely without bugs. But that does not entitle you to demand that things are somehow better than they obviously are.

You can hope for it. You can also enjoy a Developer who actively admits to bugs in their software and that they try to fix them as best as possible. Because that's actually something you almost never see. Instead you see games being produced once with god knows what kind of game-breaking bugs on release with never a patch and no comments from the developers at all.

Also, you know, you can just chillout and take life as it is. There are after all worse things that can happen in life than some bugs in a game.

 

[grommile]

I don't see how wanting a game to work as advertised makes one "entitled". We are, after all, paying customers.

Wanting a game to work as advertised is reasonable.

Demanding that the devs drop everything to fix Your Pet Bug (which, although severe, is hard to reproduce and only experienced by a small number of users), on the other hand, constitutes "acting like an entitled wossname".

 

[Sunspawn]

I don't see how wanting a game to work as advertised makes one "entitled". We are, after all, paying customers.

Did you read ANY of his posts in this thread? Did you at least read the post I quoted?

 

[Kwami]

Did you read ANY of his posts in this thread? Did you at least read the post I quoted?

The one where he describes losing dozens of hours of game play because of a bug that's been in the game for multiple major patches? Yeah, I read it. It's full of whining and nonsense about pools of money, but its point is nevertheless legitimate. I was burned by this bug, too. It sucks.

 

[Sunspawn]

The one where he describes losing dozens of hours of game play because of a bug that's been in the game for multiple major patches? Yeah, I read it. It's full of whining and nonsense about pools of money, but its point is nevertheless legitimate. I was burned by this bug, too. It sucks.

Did you also read the part where he says that the devs do absolutely nothing to fix bugs and demands they stop everything and rush to fix a "hard to reproduce and only experienced by a small number of users"(quoted from grommile, as it is correct) bug over other, more common and thus more bothering bugs?

Also, I object to the idea that a game going Rustman meaning that the game is now officially over - what prevents you from continuing to enjoy the game? I can, somewhat, understand the frustration of losing an achievement you were close to getting, but that's about it - unless you were playing ONLY for the achievement and did not derive enjoyment from playing in itself, the many hours were NOT lost.

 

[Wizzington]

Uhm. No? And besides my initial point was that it is possible that people might derive a promise from Wiz's statement, that whatever they did will fix this problem. I wasn't saying that this is a "correct understanding of language" - which is an absurd notion anyway, even more so when people with English as a secondary language are reading here. I was just hinting that it is un-cautious marketing, as people could whine. And if you think that stuff like this is irrelevant and people/fanboys/fangirls/etc. will not read poop into everything devs might say, then you probably haven't either read these forums very well or never thought why developers usually are saying nothing at all about their projects *glinting at Ubisoft here*.

How about I just continue to explain things as they are and if people want to misinterpret me that's their problem? No need to fret on my behalf.

 

[OGoby]

Great... for a while, my Castile campaign ran perfectly fine as a local save. I was in the middle of the 17th century and about 50 years short of at least 4 more difficult achievements and then *BAM*. CTD and the save file gets corrupt (0 Kb). Go to hell. Not only do we have a major problem with games de-ironmanning, the recommended method of avoiding it doesn't just prevent a de-ironman, it simply destroys your entire progress.

Fix the gamebreaking bugs before releasing any more dlcs. Get all the teams working on dlcs work out solutions for the bugs instead and then we can talk about buying any new content.

Edit: Who could disagree with this? Having spent 12-24 hours carefully planning every move in your campaign and then receiving a CTD without any error messages, you wouldn't be mad? I literally feel like I wasted a day of my life, but sadly, in reality, I've wasted more. Because of technical issues that should not be there two years after the release.

Edit: Some say the enjoyment comes from gameplay. I don't play for achievements, but achievements provide me with a sense of direction and acquiring them is a satisfying conclusion and reward for all the careful planning efforts. Not having a game conclude in the intended manner just deletes all the fun you had getting to whereever you were and leaves you with a memory of how big of a waste of time it all was.

 

[OGoby]

Wanting a game to work as advertised is reasonable.

Demanding that the devs drop everything to fix Your Pet Bug (which, although severe, is hard to reproduce and only experienced by a small number of users), on the other hand, constitutes "acting like an entitled wossname".

I have a hunch that the statistics for people experiencing this problem are not that insignificant. If you'll look up all the people with this problem on google, assume that they are only a fraction of 1/10 or so and then multiply that number by 10 (to take into account the fact that 9/10 people don't voice their complaints in forums), you'll get a fair amount of disappointed customers.

 

[Stefanos_P]

We've unfortunately never been able to reliably reproduce this, but we think the Ironman refactoring in 1.14 will get rid of the problem.

But if it doesn't then you should really consider disabling the Iron man requirement in order to get achievements.

 

[Sunspawn]

But if it doesn't then you should really consider disabling the Iron man requirement in order to get achievements.

Either Achievements do not matter and thus should not exist or they matter and thus should not be available in a gameplay mode where you can cheat to get them. As is, locking Achievements to Ironman is the right way to go.

 

[grommile]

Great... for a while, my Castile campaign ran perfectly fine as a local save. I was in the middle of the 17th century and about 50 years short of at least 4 more difficult achievements and then *BAM*. CTD and the save file gets corrupt (0 Kb).

This means that the game crashed just after starting to save the game, which implies that what probably happened was that some internal data structure had gotten corrupted, and when the game went to save, the corrupted data structure caused it to make an invalid memory access or something. This might be due to a bug somewhere in the program (probably in a place that is nothing to do with the part of the program that actually saves the game), or it might be due to faulty RAM causing a bit to flip from '1' to '0' or vice versa.

Memory corruption bugs in complex programs are a howling pain to track down, especially if the person reporting them cannot provide a reliable method to reproduce them. I know this, because I've done it in software far less complex than EU4.

Fix the gamebreaking bugs before releasing any more dlcs. Get all the teams working on dlcs work out solutions for the bugs instead and then we can talk about buying any new content.

This turns out to be a good way to get a project shut down due to lack of revenue.

 

[OGoby]

This means that the game crashed just after starting to save the game, which implies that what probably happened was that some internal data structure had gotten corrupted, and when the game went to save, the corrupted data structure caused it to make an invalid memory access or something. This might be due to a bug somewhere in the program (probably in a place that is nothing to do with the part of the program that actually saves the game), or it might be due to faulty RAM causing a bit to flip from '1' to '0' or vice versa.

Memory corruption bugs in complex programs are a howling pain to track down, especially if the person reporting them cannot provide a reliable method to reproduce them. I know this, because I've done it in software far less complex than EU4.

This turns out to be a good way to get a project shut down due to lack of revenue.

My operating system being 32 bit might factor into the memory issues. I've not heard my friend who has 64 bit ever complain about technical issues like what I'm experiencing. Before I wasn't even able to save or load any game and had to use the "increaseuserva" command to do that, but perhaps it didn't completely solve the issue and now these are the lingering effects.

 

[OGoby]

My operating system being 32 bit might factor into the memory issues. I've not heard my friend who has 64 bit ever complain about technical issues like what I'm experiencing. Before I wasn't even able to save or load any game and had to use the "increaseuserva" command to do that, but perhaps it didn't completely solve the issue and now these are the lingering effects.

I don't see why the saving system immediately tries to overwrite the previous save. Instead the first step should be to backup the current save, move it somewhere whence it can be recovered if the saving process, for whatever reason, failed in the "overwriting" stage. Or at least maintain two copies AT ALL TIMES. So much risk is involved in keeping just one copy of a file this important.

Does anybody know if personal save games that are manually backed up can be loaded without losing ironman?

 

[atwix]

Does anybody know if personal save games that are manually backed up can be loaded without losing ironman?

yes, that works. I used this to 'restore' campaigns to ironman after thhis bug occured.

You can go all out backup freak modus, to make sure you won't lose silly amount of hours trying to get an achievement.

If you overwrite a backup xxxx.eu4 over the corrupted save in the userdata folder of steam folder, then the game will upload this older save, and the campaign will be flagged as ironman again.

Is this a fun way to avoid the bug? No. But it works. Just copy paste your local save to this or that location, and do daily backup or every 10 hours or so. If save goes corrupy, you can rollback the campaign to your last backup.

Bit silly it has to come to this workaround, to avoid losing tons of hours of investment to get a hard achievement...

But if you are doing a WC run or ryukyu wc run, or Jihad or any other hard/long achievement, i would want to be 'safe'.

 

[Stefanos_P]

Either Achievements do not matter and thus should not exist or they matter and thus should not be available in a gameplay mode where you can cheat to get them. As is, locking Achievements to Ironman is the right way to go.

I can cheat just fine in Iron man, the only thing Iron man accomplishes is making my game slower due to the autosaves, and making me go through hurdles to save scum.

Hell, I could probably even unlock achievements without even playing

 

[HansBaer]

We cannot fix what we cannot reoroduce, and none of the suggested methods for reproducing have worked. Thus why we opted to fix it via reworking the system instead, I just can't promise 100% that the problem cannot happen again since we can't verify a fix without being able to reproduce the problem, but I'm almost entirely certain it will not happen in 1.14.

I got the problem once (three mountains run, no less) when I unpacked a huge archive in the background while starting the game and then very quickly opening my save file. So maybe it is reproducible by letting prime95 or something similar use up all your cpu power. I'm too lazy too test it and don't get paid for it

 

[Sunspawn]

I can cheat just fine in Iron man, the only thing Iron man accomplishes is making my game slower due to the autosaves, and making me go through hurdles to save scum.

Hell, I could probably even unlock achievements without even playing

Why do you care about achievements then? If you want goals and whatnot, write it down of a piece of paper and when you do it for real, tick it down. There, you achieved it. If not, then just add all the shiny bling by cheating outright.