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GulGnu

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If you are unable to keep yourself from cheating, what's to stop you from editing the save file to circumvent the Ironman restrictions? It's incredibly easy. You could literally just change three numbers and the entire game is different.

As others have pointed out, the inconvenience of editing the save file is far greater than the inconvenience of choosing "Retire->Load".

Wanting an ironman mode is not any more strange than not wanting a big red button in the middle of the screen that says "CLICK TO GET MORE GOLD!". Willpower is not an infinite resource in any human being, even though many prefer to pretend as if that was the case.

Note that the benefit from Ironman is present even if you do manage to play a "No reload" game in EU3, as it removes the negative emotions related to fighting the temptation to reload.

As for dev resources, I can´t really see Ironman taking much in the way of resources compared to the benefit to a significant chunk of players.
 
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Dankysh

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Well, duh. Or, probably even more common, they prefer not to have to apply willpower when playing the game, as it detracts from the overall experience.

Well said in both posts. Even if one won't reload when something majorly bad happens then when loading up the game for another play though they can be really tested. Eith click the furthest along save with a crumbling empire (which wasn't really your fault but some silly thing) or choose the one two years back when things look promising.

And that's the other thing. If I attack, say the HRE, and lose. Well then I pay my due and re build without reloading. If I'm attacking the HRE and winning, then some really really bad luck which meant the promising war went sideways and I lose (like Spearman beating tank in Civ - can't use EU4 example as obviously not played it). Then I will want to reload so it is 'fair'.

But that's not right, the kings of old didn't decide to replay a war because the winning alliance had something massively unfair happen to them. I would like to be told - yes you was winning and yes your empire looked to be gaining strength after strength. The new Rome some was calling it. But this one little thing which just happened means you're going to lose the war which in turn means losing a lot of money. Then a couple more little things happen which further weaken your empire AND then your King dies replaced by a retard. One minute you're fighting the HRE for europe supremacy and the next you're fighting for your life. That sounds great and I fear without Ironman I would think 'NO I won't accept that really unfair thing, the AI never gets them, reload time'.

I hope that makes sense, without example it was hard to explain fully. For the people who would accept it or even would hate struggling to stay 'alive' then fine don't use Ironman. But for the many people who wouldn't accept and may enjoy the struggle; What's the problem with it being included?
 

GulGnu

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I hope that makes sense, without example it was hard to explain fully. For the people who would accept it or even would hate struggling to stay 'alive' then fine don't use Ironman. But for the many people who wouldn't accept and may enjoy the struggle; What's the problem with it being included?

I think it could be eye-opening for many to try Ironman - like you say, it lessens the temptation to "self-negotiate" away "unfair" outcomes. It might also make many re-assess the difficulty of the game. After all, currently difficulty is measured in the presence of infinite time-travel powers. Even just one save-reload at a key moment can have drastic impact on "history". I bet the Romans would have loved to have just one reload after Adrianople, for instance...
 

Dankysh

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I think it could be eye-opening for many to try Ironman - like you say, it lessens the temptation to "self-negotiate" away "unfair" outcomes. It might also make many re-assess the difficulty of the game. After all, currently difficulty is measured in the presence of infinite time-travel powers. Even just one save-reload at a key moment can have drastic impact on "history". I bet the Romans would have loved to have just one reload after Adrianople, for instance...

Or BYZ with the sacking of Constantinople in 2014. Paradox games are easy with the ability to reload (and to some extent pause. We can pause think things through, look at all our options, look at the battlefield and see when troops will get to x - then plan to beat them). Take that away, like with XCOM, wrong one mistake can have massive implications. I completed XCOM on Ironman (never did non ironman mode). There was many times when my troops were hit by tiny odds (like 1%) or when they missed with massive odds in their favour. Which then lead to their death, death of others and once death of the squad. I then forced to use rookies and try to scrape through a mission. With reload I probably would of missed that and simply reloaded when my squad member was killed while in high cover with tiny odds which lead to the death of a closeby squad member and eventually the rest. (if he would of survived he no doubt would of destroyed the enemy which killed all of my squad)

Such a small thing, survive one shot with full health in deep cover. Happens so often one wouldn't even consider it going wrong a possibility. Had it happened before then I had other members who could of finished it, or after then the big bad enemy would of been dead. But no it happened then, with a tiny chance and a critical which lead to a massive knock on effect. But it was completely unfair, would probably never happen to the AI and was unbelievably unlucky which leads to me wanting to reload.
 

Featauril

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What does that even prove?

"Ironman poop" gets 1 020 000 results. I guess that is pretty good for... something?

Blatant red herring.

Anyway the point is moot. Ironman is stupid easy to implement and has been a staple of strategy gaming for ages. I remember playing with it in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. There's literally no reason to be against the option for it. Dev time is a little tick box on starting a new game that prunes autosaves down to one only and won't let you resign without saving, simple menu changes that can be achieved by graying out the relevant buttons.
 

Baneslave

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Blatant red herring.

Anyway the point is moot. Ironman is stupid easy to implement and has been a staple of strategy gaming for ages. I remember playing with it in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. There's literally no reason to be against the option for it. Dev time is a little tick box on starting a new game that prunes autosaves down to one only and won't let you resign without saving, simple menu changes that can be achieved by graying out the relevant buttons.

True, and I agree.

However, I am against putting watermarks into screenshots, as that goes far too much into epenis territory.

Also, putting any kind of anticheat system for singleplayer is awful idea.
 

Don_Quigleone

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Also, putting any kind of anticheat system for singleplayer is awful idea.

I disagree, having an ironman without also a "no cheat" setting would void the challenge. You don't feel much fear if you can tag switch and delete that army that's about to kill what few troops you have.

I'd have two seperate settings:
1. Ironman (no save scumming)
2. No cheats. Removes the cheat console.
 

Don_Quigleone

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Why? I think it is good idea as it allows people to focus on the game instead of thinking 'I can just open the console and fix my problems'.

Definitely. For instance, in EU3 I find it very difficult to resist tag switching. In CK2, however, tag switching is a lot more laborious (as you have to look up character ids), so I never do it.
 

Featauril

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True, and I agree.

However, I am against putting watermarks into screenshots, as that goes far too much into epenis territory.

Also, putting any kind of anticheat system for singleplayer is awful idea.

I don't care about watermarks to be honest. If people want to say it was ironman they can just say it was ironman and people can believe them or not.

Optional no-console mode could be incorporated or separate, but I agree that forced no-console would be bad.
 

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I don't care about watermarks to be honest. If people want to say it was ironman they can just say it was ironman and people can believe them or not.
Honestly, I care about it more the other way round. People who savescum like their life depends on it, then come onto the forum to boast about what great players they are. And yes, it might be petty to want to be able to ask them "Where's the watermark on your screenshots, then?" but I don't care.
:)

Besides, you guys do know about the "Post your Empire" threads, right? The latest one in the EUIII forum has over 11,000 replies, so I think it's a bit late to worry about "epeen waving". They've been waving proudly in the breeze ever since the game was launched.
 
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