Ironman Mode for EUIV?

[EUnderhill]

I think the difference to reloading by process in total and by resigning is less then 1½ min atleast for me (tested on CK2)
But no doubt Ironman mode without any "achievements" would be ok since Johan stated its almost no work at all.

Still I think its funny, that people keep putting up argumentation, about how people would not cheat because 1½ mins is harder than 50 sec reload

I've never really noticed how long exactly it takes for a game to load...there's always laundry to sort or dishes to wash while the game is loading.

 

[smellymummy]

The same reason people reload now even though they want to play a reload free game?

so following that logic any other game that has an ironman option, people are just constantly cheating that too? this makes no sense

 

[DarkieBabZ]

I've never really noticed how long exactly it takes for a game to load...there's always laundry to sort or dishes to wash while the game is loading.

Don't get me wrong.. the difference is not that much that was my whole point.. The "reload is to easy" argument is not very good if you ask me..
I still think its an ok idea and I support it "without all the stupid achievements" since Johan said it takes no work to implement..

The majority of people will still cheat if they cheated before Ironman mode or not.


If you want a game for the challenge and if you want no secound chances! then be sure to sign up for one of my MP games when the game is out (AI is still AI Ironman mode or not)

 

[MylesSCP]

so following that logic any other game that has an ironman option, people are just constantly cheating that too? this makes no sense

If the ironman mode is easily circumventable, then I'd say a lot of people do, yes. See, if people really wanted to play an ironman game, they can right now with no extra programming, but because of peoples' lack of self control they say that isn't good enough. So what they say they need is something that prevents them from being able to do that, or at least makes it very inconvenient. Adding an extra minute or two of loading time is not inconvenient enough to stop you from going back and never declaring your disastrous war.

 

[DarkieBabZ]

so following that logic any other game that has an ironman option, people are just constantly cheating that too? this makes no sense

The vast majority I know cheated like insane in Ironman mode for Xcom then after they cheated and got tons of achievement they bragged..

I played it on normal and didnt reload.. if you wanna cheat you will cheat no matter what.. I've even seen someone trying to cheat in a Paradox MP game, lucky enough thats easy to spot and you would be forever expelled as a trusted host.

 

[smellymummy]

so the only reason this argument about cheating ironman mode is being brought up is because some people are going to brag about being great at a game on hardcore mode?

 

[MylesSCP]

so the only reason this argument about cheating ironman mode is being brought up is because some people are going to brag about being great at a game on hardcore mode?

No, it's because people say they need an ironman mode to make it very hard/inconvenient to reload, but then propose a system that is easily circumventable. That makes no sense to me. I guess it's some mental trick that makes it so you will reload when it takes 30 seconds outside ironman mode, but won't reload when it takes 1-2 minutes in ironman mode.

 

[EUnderhill]

The vast majority I know cheated like insane in Ironman mode for Xcom then after they cheated and got tons of achievement they bragged.

...and people are still saying there's no downside?

 

[Baneslave]

...and people are still saying there's no downside?

Someone bragging about something they didn't do. The horror!

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Even if you do use the exploit you speak of to reload, that is not a perfect circumvention of Ironman. For instance, you wouldn't be able to go back to a save before you declared war 2 years ago, and so get out of a losing war. You would only be able to avoid individual bad events, which is still not great, but better then before.

 

[DarkieBabZ]

so the only reason this argument about cheating ironman mode is being brought up is because some people are going to brag about being great at a game on hardcore mode?

Not really.. your arguments have been.

Without Ironman mode its to easy to cheat
With Ironman mode you get a challenge


My argument simply state that you don't get either of the two with this mode instead you might get people cheating even more for the sake of achievements..

Thats was all.

 

[MylesSCP]

Even if you do use the exploit you speak of to reload, that is not a perfect circumvention of Ironman. For instance, you wouldn't be able to go back to a save before you declared war 2 years ago, and so get out of a losing war. You would only be able to avoid individual bad events, which is still not great, but better then before.

Going back a year is a long time, and getting out of a bad war is probably one of the biggest advantages you can get in EU. If ironman doesn't prevent the following scenario from happening then I will 100% consider it useless.

As France you declare war on England
6 months later you are declared upon by Spain
A month after that by Austria
You kill the process and go back to before it ever happened

Now, I don't expect the Devs to do that because Johan mentioned achievements being related, and I know they're competent in what they do. At the very least major choices like war declaration, idea selection, leader succession, ect will need to overwrite the save.

 

[DarkieBabZ]

...and people are still saying there's no downside?

Tbh.. there is no real downside other than it being pretty easy to fix without being there

I could care less if they added the mode or not, aslong as it would not take away time used for other more important features in my opinion (but Johan stated this is easy mode to make)
But it still wont prevent people from easy cheating I still laugh at people telling me you can't cheat in steam games without much effort.

 

[DarkieBabZ]

Even if you do use the exploit you speak of to reload, that is not a perfect circumvention of Ironman. For instance, you wouldn't be able to go back to a save before you declared war 2 years ago, and so get out of a losing war. You would only be able to avoid individual bad events, which is still not great, but better then before.

You could use 2 mins download a trainer (yes they will be there) hit get xxxx gold etc.. if people wanted to cheat you could and that was the argument!
Then we have people talking about this as a big challenge but there is no different on me playing without reload and one playing Ironman mode.

The only valid argument I've seen for this mode so far is. I have no selfcontrol and I am prone to reload please restrain me and that is ok
Thats also the reason many "moderate" people opposing this said. "if it wont take away to much time for now player fixable issues go for it, if not don't" but thats already been discussed and again! Johan already stated
that very easy to implement..

It really should stop there. no need to keep making new arguments thats not really valid



I know people love SP and I do aswell.. but this is one of the main reason I encourage friends to play MP with me in Paradox games! no reload no secound chances and actual people
to compete with.

 

[EUnderhill]

Someone bragging about something they didn't do. The horror!

It's more the ensuing 26-page argument that follows I would find annoying...especially if there is the occasional substantive post obscured within. I reckon we will find out in October.

 

[JakopDalunde]

Posting on forums on the internet: Free.

A twentyfour page thread on how an unreleased game - that has yet to reach beta - is too easy: Priceless.

 

[siis]

Going back a year is a long time, and getting out of a bad war is probably one of the biggest advantages you can get in EU. If ironman doesn't prevent the following scenario from happening then I will 100% consider it useless.

As France you declare war on England
6 months later you are declared upon by Spain
A month after that by Austria
You kill the process and go back to before it ever happened

Now, I don't expect the Devs to do that because Johan mentioned achievements being related, and I know they're competent in what they do. At the very least major choices like war declaration, idea selection, leader succession, ect will need to overwrite the save.

You can easily copy your autosave to a new folder to prevent overwriting.

 

[GulGnu]

You can easily copy your autosave to a new folder to prevent overwriting.

Constantly keeping an up-to-date copy of your autosave seems like quite the task.

 

[GulGnu]

A twentyfour page thread on how an unreleased game - that has yet to reach beta - is too easy

Say what?

 

[GulGnu]

Still I think its funny, that people keep putting up argumentation, about how people would not cheat because 1½ mins is harder than 50 sec reload

Well, yes. Most likely, you get fewer reloads if reloading takes longer and / or is more inconvenient.

But that also ignores that there are ways of making reloading even more difficult than just forcing a restart, approaches that you seem to be quite unwilling to even acknowledge the existence of for some reason.