Ironman Mode for EUIV?

[Dankysh]

Just man up and resist the temptation to reload except for starting new sessions.

I find that a really poor attitude.

The simple fact is for many people an Ironman mode adds enjoyment and a different way to experience the game. We are not talking about reloading everytime anything bad happens but what serious and down right unlucky problems occur. E.g. spending many many years with sliders and such to westernise only for the comet event to hit as your young King came to age with the correct stats. Then when getting +3 stability again for your King to die before a stupid pointless war you aren't even actively participating in finishes. Resisting a reload there is difficult and an annoying distraction. A 10 second reload is tempting while closing down the program and restarting it quite simply is not.

Taking it out of our hands with a simple one save, no reloading and save when quit takes that out of our hands. That is all it needs, any other addition is just fleshing it out. But those 3 extremely simple features would add enjoyment for many of us.

 

[apsycobear]

I find that a really poor attitude.

The simple fact is for many people an Ironman mode adds enjoyment and a different way to experience the game. We are not talking about reloading everytime anything bad happens but what serious and down right unlucky problems occur. E.g. spending many many years with sliders and such to westernise only for the comet event to hit as your young King came to age with the correct stats. Then when getting +3 stability again for your King to die before a stupid pointless war you aren't even actively participating in finishes. Resisting a reload there is difficult and an annoying distraction. A 10 second reload is tempting while closing down the program and restarting it quite simply is not.

Taking it out of our hands with a simple one save, no reloading and save when quit takes that out of our hands. That is all it needs, any other addition is just fleshing it out. But those 3 extremely simple features would add enjoyment for many of us.

Shit happens.

 

[unmerged(619807)]

I'm mildly disturbed by the lack of restraint from the OP and others in the thread. Learning to accept moderation and restraint aren't solely the domain of Paradox games.

Learn to control yourselves. You're asking for potential restrictions on all of us so a minority can play without cheating. If your enjoyment was truly diminished by save scumming then why would you do it?

You're asking for a mode that is completely at the mercy of a game engine that occasionally has hiccups. I don't like that idea.

It would be more rewarding to master your impulses and be a better person instead of asking Paradox to remove ways you choose to spoil your game with. It is your choice to save scum and cheat.

>_>) Perhaps they should move to a new engine that requires you to stay connected at all times so you can't use a trainer either?

Self control is a healthier option. Best of all, you don't have to ask anyone to implement it for you. You have all the tools you already need.

 

[kingofnoobs]

I'm mildly disturbed by the lack of restraint from the OP and others in the thread. Learning to accept moderation and restraint aren't solely the domain of Paradox games.

Learn to control yourselves. You're asking for potential restrictions on all of us so a minority can play without cheating. If your enjoyment was truly diminished by save scumming then why would you do it?

You're asking for a mode that is completely at the mercy of a game engine that occasionally has hiccups. I don't like that idea.

It would be more rewarding to master your impulses and be a better person instead of asking Paradox to remove ways you choose to spoil your game with. It is your choice to save scum and cheat.

>_>) Perhaps they should move to a new engine that requires you to stay connected at all times so you can't use a trainer either?

Self control is a healthier option. Best of all, you don't have to ask anyone to implement it for you. You have all the tools you already need.

Completely agree with you. People need to learn to control themselves.

 

[unmerged(619807)]

Thank you. I'm glad that my opinion is shared.

I feel the need to clarify and expand on how I approached the issue however. I responded forcefully against the idea as if it would be implemented on all of us- like there would ONLY be an ironman mode instead of it being an optional mode. The OP did not suggest this, nor did anyone else in the thread. Then why did I respond as if they did?

Because of time.

The developers of EUIV only have so much time. So many ideas are good but there is only so much time to include all of them.

Let's say that
Idea 1
Idea 2
Idea 3
are all compelling and have their own proponents in the forum. But there is only enough time to implement the first two ideas. This is my concern. By investing time to make an ironman mode, another valuable idea is not chosen. What separates the ironman mode from a different idea is the player already has the option to not save scum simply by showing temperance!

So by including Iron Mode we could be missing out on more content. By including a button for an option that we already have, we could potentially lose features that would otherwise not be included (or in all likelihood- pushed back to a future DLC or patch).

I like the idea, it's fine on its own. But I would much rather see more content instead of a harness for morally dubious player with a guilty conscience!

It is a fine idea and I spent a few minutes wondering if it would be possible to mod it in (5 comet events in a row..)

 

[Hydro Globus]

You are so gonna get picked apart, for reasoning an opinion other than the loudest participant in this topic, and not just say PARADOX DO WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN AND EVERYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS AN IDIOT.

I do wish you luck.

 

[Featauril]

You're asking for potential restrictions on all of us so a minority can play without cheating. If your enjoyment was truly diminished by save scumming then why would you do it?

I'm asking for a checkbox to tick when I start a game.

You're asking for a mode that is completely at the mercy of a game engine that occasionally has hiccups. I don't like that idea.

Then don't use it?

As for use of resources, it really isn't a concern. It's a checkbox on the load menu, next to difficulty. Zero research, zero arts assets, minimal coding (all the required features are already there). How could that possibly remove a DLC or feature?

 

[Don_Quigleone]

I'm mildly disturbed by the lack of restraint from the OP and others in the thread. Learning to accept moderation and restraint aren't solely the domain of Paradox games.

Learn to control yourselves. You're asking for potential restrictions on all of us so a minority can play without cheating. If your enjoyment was truly diminished by save scumming then why would you do it?

You're asking for a mode that is completely at the mercy of a game engine that occasionally has hiccups. I don't like that idea.

It would be more rewarding to master your impulses and be a better person instead of asking Paradox to remove ways you choose to spoil your game with. It is your choice to save scum and cheat.

>_>) Perhaps they should move to a new engine that requires you to stay connected at all times so you can't use a trainer either?

Self control is a healthier option. Best of all, you don't have to ask anyone to implement it for you. You have all the tools you already need.

I play EUIV to have fun. Learning Self control -> Not fun.

Furthermore, I've tried to improve my self control for 10 years now, and I've never succeeded. Far as I'm concerned your "self control" is hardwired. I don't need random people on the internet telling me to just try harder


Anyway, people often complain about EU being too easy, but a lot of that is the ease of save scumming. If you actually play without ever saving/reloading it's a much harder game. I would argue that Ironman mode is how EU is meant to be played. By implementing such a mode it will allow those of us with less willpower to experience EUIV in all it's evil player punishing glory.

Also, I sincerely doubt this is a hard feature to implement. And furthermore, I bet this mode would bring more attention to the game, much like Ironman brought more attention to XCOM.

 

[EUnderhill]

I play EUIV to have fun. Learning Self control -> Not fun.

Furthermore, I've tried to improve my self control for 10 years now, and I've never succeeded. Far as I'm concerned your "self control" is hardwired. I don't need random people on the internet telling me to just try harder


Anyway, people often complain about EU being too easy, but a lot of that is the ease of save scumming. If you actually play without ever saving/reloading it's a much harder game. I would argue that Ironman mode is how EU is meant to be played. By implementing such a mode it will allow those of us with less willpower to experience EUIV in all it's evil player punishing glory.

Also, I sincerely doubt this is a hard feature to implement. And furthermore, I bet this mode would bring more attention to the game, much like Ironman brought more attention to XCOM.

Ironman mode may stop you from "savescumming" (nice little vocabulary addition), but it won't stop you from exploiting flaws in the AI. Jack Radey put it best: "If you find a way to sneak a column of tanks between a paragraph of rules, don't do it." That is where the exercise in self-control pays off.

 

[apsycobear]

I play EUIV to have fun. Learning Self control -> Not fun.

Furthermore, I've tried to improve my self control for 10 years now, and I've never succeeded. Far as I'm concerned your "self control" is hardwired. I don't need random people on the internet telling me to just try harder


Anyway, people often complain about EU being too easy, but a lot of that is the ease of save scumming. If you actually play without ever saving/reloading it's a much harder game. I would argue that Ironman mode is how EU is meant to be played. By implementing such a mode it will allow those of us with less willpower to experience EUIV in all it's evil player punishing glory.

Also, I sincerely doubt this is a hard feature to implement. And furthermore, I bet this mode would bring more attention to the game, much like Ironman brought more attention to XCOM.

EU is rather easy even without save scumming. Yes ironman mode IS how EU is meant to be played, but you don't need to literally implement a mode for that. Just play with a single save. Also what brought attention to XCOM was how good the original X-COM was.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Then don't use it?

The same could be said about reloading for people who want to play ironman mode. And that wouldn't require any coding at all.

 

[GulGnu]

You're asking for potential restrictions on all of us so a minority can play without cheating.

Could you please explain exactly how an "Ironman" checkbox (as in XCOM) would in any way, shape or form place "restrictions on all of us"?

 

[GulGnu]

I feel the need to clarify and expand on how I approached the issue however. I responded forcefully against the idea as if it would be implemented on all of us- like there would ONLY be an ironman mode instead of it being an optional mode. The OP did not suggest this, nor did anyone else in the thread. Then why did I respond as if they did?

Because of time.

I seriously doubt this. The dev time explanation is not harder to articulate or more time-demanding to explain.

 

[GulGnu]

Also what brought attention to XCOM was how good the original X-COM was.

He did not claim that "Ironman was what brought attention to XCOM". He claimed that "Ironman brought more attention to XCOM". Replying to what was actually said and avoiding non sequiturs is usually considered good form in debates.

 

[apsycobear]

He did not claim that "Ironman was what brought attention to XCOM". He claimed that "Ironman brought more attention to XCOM". Replying to what was actually said and avoiding non sequiturs is usually considered good form in debates.

Forgive me then, I'll correct myself.

Ironman mode did not bring more attention to XCOM, it was a neat addition that people enjoyed, but it was in no way a deciding factor as to whether or not someone intended to get the game.

Better?

 

[GulGnu]

You are so gonna get picked apart, for reasoning an opinion other than the loudest participant in this topic, and not just say PARADOX DO WHAT I WANT TO HAPPEN AND EVERYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS AN IDIOT.

No, the primary reason is the inherent condescending arrogance of trying to dictate the preferences of others.

I.e. here is a summary of the debate so far:

- "I sometimes derive greater enjoyment from games when I do not have to even consider whether or not to reload to a previous save and when what has happened in my game is permanent."

- "No you do not, and if you actually do you are morally deficient and should reform yourself".

As for the actual argument, here is a useful exercise:

What would the attitude of the "self-control is no object"-camp be towards implementing the following buttons on the main screen of EU4:

- "Get 1000 gold now"

- "Get 10 000 troops now"

- "Raise your tech levels now"

Now, it is possible that you might want these. But could you see why someone might not want them? And could you see why someone might in a similar fashion want to play without the equivalent of a button that says "Unlimited time travel now"?

 

[GulGnu]

Forgive me then, I'll correct myself.

Ironman mode did not bring more attention to XCOM, it was a neat addition that people enjoyed, but it was in no way a deciding factor as to whether or not someone intended to get the game.

Better?

Better, but he didn´t actually claim that it was "a deciding factor as to whether or not someone intended to get the game". (In any case, it would be pretty hard to gauge the accuracy of that statement)

Now, as for the actual question, did Ironman mode "draw more attention to XCOM"? It is hard to measure accurately, but a pointer is perhaps that XCOM + Ironman will yield more than 1,2 million hits on Google. Obviously, at least a modicum of attention has been paid to the mode on the Interwebs.

 

[Colombo]

No, the primary reason is the inherent condescending arrogance of trying to dictate the preferences of others.

I.e. here is a summary of the debate so far:

- "I sometimes derive greater enjoyment from games when I do not have to even consider whether or not to reload to a previous save and when what has happened in my game is permanent."

- "No you do not, and if you actually do you are morally deficient and should reform yourself".

As for the actual argument, here is a useful exercise:

What would the attitude of the "self-control is no object"-camp be towards implementing the following buttons on the main screen of EU4:

- "Get 1000 gold now"

- "Get 10 000 troops now"

- "Raise your tech levels now"

Now, it is possible that you might want these. But could you see why someone might not want them? And could you see why someone might in a similar fashion want to play without the equivalent of a button that says "Unlimited time travel now"?

Whose buttons are called "console"

 

[GulGnu]

Whose buttons are called "console"

I am talking about easily accessed buttons that do not require the investment of looking up cheat codes. You do not need to Google "save codes" to save and reload, after all.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

I am talking about easily accessed buttons that do not require the investment of looking up cheat codes. You do not need to Google "save codes" to save and reload, after all.

And I would argue that a checkbox to disable the cheat console would also be good. It's already disabled for multiplayer after all...