Ireland

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What do people think about playing Ireland?

It's small and would likely be quickly creamed once any fighting starts, but it could still be interesting and might have a chance with good diplomacy.

Considering what Britain has done to Ireland over the years they certainly have enough reason to join the Axis, or at least be a
co-belligerent.

Will you be able to grant military access like in EU2 to let other nations use your ports?

 

[unmerged(1972)]

Even if Germany had military access to Ireland, getting more than a few subs to that island would be an impressive feat. You'd have to pass through the British navy and air force.

 

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Originally posted by JPesterfield
What do people think about playing Ireland?


Will you be able to grant military access like in EU2 to let other nations use your ports?

Doing so would be considered a de facto nullification of neutral status under the quite different rules governing international relations in effect during the time frame of HoI as opposed to EU.

On the other hand, ships of combatant nations are allowed to seek temporary refuge (maximum 72 hours) within neutral ports, subject to permission from the neutral nation in question, of course

 

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Ireland joining the Axis?

As was pointed out, the Germanys would be extremely hard pressed to grant any aid to Ireland due to the British blockade. As a result I don't think it would be long before the UK re-occupies all of the Island.

Sure, it would tie up a few more British troops, and that might (very theoretically) tip the balance in favour of the Axis, but Ireland would still be occupied very quickly.

[Note: this is not based off of HOI, rather my own historical knowledge]

 

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True. Even I said it would be doomed, but it'd still be interesting to play out.

Ireland might be a good learn by playing nation. Historically neutral so you won't have to worry about enemies unless the player makes them. And you have the choice of fighting Britain, or joining the Allies and helping with the Battle of the Atlantic.

 

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The question is what exactly can Ireland do ? In those times it was poor, backward and sparsly populated. Unless you somehow offical founded the IRA you might anoy the English a little bit but serisuly, what is the point ? As might as well load up the game as Costa Rica and Guatemala.

 

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Originally posted by ZheShiWO
In those times it was poor, backward and sparsly populated.

What do you mean "in those times"? I think "since the dawn of time" might be a great deal more appropriate.

 

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Originally posted by Sir Andrew


What do you mean "in those times"? I think "since the dawn of time" might be a great deal more appropriate.

Think he meant "those times" as opposed to now. Ireland is the celtic tiger of course

 

[Nobby]

HOI is not like EU. If you're a minor (like Ireland) and go to war with a major (like Britain) you will almost certainly be anihalated, probably very quickly. Britain could easily have defeated Irish forces with a minimum of effort, and the chances of any German aid getting through are slim to none. Allying with the allies might be more interesting, but you'll still be a tiny and insignificant nation during the war.

 

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What do you mean "in those times"? I think "since the dawn of time" might be a great deal more appropriate.

Werent the Irish some bad ass viking-esque rading people at one point in their history?

 

[Pwyll]

No matter how much Ireland may dislike the English I fear they would not want to be alienating the Americans by joining the Axis... Nothing to gain and Everything to lose.

 

[ComteDeMeighan]

The Irish Republican Army existed at the time of this game... It had a bombing campaign against Britain that formally began on 12 January 1939. On the 15th of June 1939 the Irish Government declared the IRA an unlawful organization. Of course the 30's were a time of disaster for the IRA. Also the Irish government wasn't as pro-nazi as everyone assumes. Every Nazi spy that landed in Ireland was caught and arrested by the government of De Valera. Churchill's fears about the possibilitiy of an IRA-Nazi tie up proved groundless throughout the war. Eamon de Valera had wanted his country to be neutral and neutral it stayed, in one of the greatest diplomatic feats of the Second World War.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

De Valera officially followed a policy of strict neutrality, but it was a neutrality aimed against Germany. For example, German pilots were strictly interned, while US & UK pilots were often allowed to return. Also, over thirty thousand Irishmen volunteered for service in the British Army (which continued the long tradition of Irish service in the British Army) - almost as many as the number who enlisted from Northern Ireland.

Besides, the Irish army at this point was very weak (two divisions), & totally dependent on the British & Americans for armaments. It would have been suicide for Ireland to join the Axis.

 

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Originally posted by JPesterfield


Considering what Britain has done to Ireland over the years they certainly have enough reason to join the Axis, or at least be a
co-belligerent.

To what end? You'd have to build a navy capable of dealing with the English navy to get anywhere, and methinks that is not going to happen.

 

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I could only see Ireland joining the Axis if the Germans had successfully invaded the UK. But I'd still think that it would be a very small chance. As for HOI I'd play it the same way, if the Germany's were going to beat the British I'd make a grab for Nth Ireland.

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by ComteDeMeighan
The Irish Republican Army existed at the time of this game... It had a bombing campaign against Britain that formally began on 12 January 1939. On the 15th of June 1939 the Irish Government declared the IRA an unlawful organization. Of course the 30's were a time of disaster for the IRA. Also the Irish government wasn't as pro-nazi as everyone assumes. Every Nazi spy that landed in Ireland was caught and arrested by the government of De Valera. Churchill's fears about the possibilitiy of an IRA-Nazi tie up proved groundless throughout the war. Eamon de Valera had wanted his country to be neutral and neutral it stayed, in one of the greatest diplomatic feats of the Second World War.

If you call staying neutral and not entering the war a great feat of diplomacy? Or do you believe putting your morning suit on to pay your respects to the late Herr Hitler at the German embassy another diplomatic triumph? If the answer is yes then you will understand the insular isolated state that existed till the birth of the EEC("and the cheapie ryan air flights god bless them"). de Valera was offered a "United Ireland" by Churchill to enter the war. de Valera the greatest "little Irelander" in history turned it down not because of any high moral motives but for the simple reason the additional voters from the larglely unionist north together with the moderate nationalist opposition party in the south would ensure that his own party would never have the nessecary numbers to be elected again. The IRA provided inteligence on bombing targets in the north and damage reports on air raids on Belfast. Belfast was "Blitzed" by the Luftwaffe twice during WWII (the southern fire engines came north to help), the bombs did not discriminate between Catholics or Protestants.

 

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Originally posted by ZheShiWO

Werent the Irish some bad ass viking-esque rading people at one point in their history?

Well, the opposite actually

 

[Smirfy]

Originally posted by DarthMaur

Well, the opposite actually

Nope several extensive Viking settlements in Ireland coupled with a wild gaelic race, sprinkle a few Normans a drop of Scots add a few landed gentry bake with little land and big families at gas mark religous tension and you will understand where you find an army you will find the Irish.

 

[ComteDeMeighan]

Well No

The IRA did not give intelligence to the Germans this was impossible because every German spy landed in Ireland was caught. The IRA was very fragmented at the time of the war anyway and couldn't have helped the Germans much anyway.
Also where do you get this mystical theory about Churchill giving Northern Ireland to the Free State, this never happened check your facts please. This is a pure fantasy. Ireland helped the allies to a great extent releasing allied pilots and seaman back to the UK while maintaining a difficult neutrality........

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Re: Well No

Originally posted by ComteDeMeighan
Also where do you get this mystical theory about Churchill giving Northern Ireland to the Free State, this never happened check your facts please. This is a pure fantasy. Ireland helped the allies to a great extent releasing allied pilots and seaman back to the UK while maintaining a difficult neutrality........

Actually, I think this did occur. If my memory serves me correctly (I remember reading the actual document in a book a while back), the British offered to endorse the concept of a united Ireland (which essentially means that they would be willing to hand over Northern Ireland) in exchange for Ireland joining the Allies. I think the timing was in late 1940, because the intermediary was Chamberlain (who died in Nov. '1940).