Invasion or Fabricate?

[Pinstar]

So, I am currently the Duke of Gasgonie and Aquitaine, owning all the provinces in both of those dejure duchies as well as a few that dip down into Spain. Having been fed up with the King of France, I and one other unruly duke recently won a war of independence.

My goal is to form the kingdom of Aquitaine. Unfortunately, I only own 9 dejure counties when I need 12 to form the kingdom. The rest of the counties that are needed all belong to France. I see two options.

1. Get an invasion CB from the Pope (I'm smaller than France and have over 500 piety) and just take all of France for myself... provided I can win the war which might be iffy. (I DID beat them in the independence war...and I didn't even get a free doomstack despite waging the war through the faction system, so I feel I have a decent chance)
2. Fabricate claims on 3 more counties (probably all in the duchy of Toulouse), wait for the duchy to rebel against France, then sweep in and take my land, allowing me to form the kingdom of Aquitaine.


France is in the middle of a protracted succession crisis right now, so I can't use the Invasion CB right now (So many duchies have splintered off, France itself is technically smaller than me, and I don't have any valid CBs at the moment to pick off the individuals)
But once the crisis ends, it would be a prime time to strike with the invasion, since their levies are probably still depleted and their vassals probably aren't super-loyal to whomever manages to win the throne.

I have a good chancellor (23) so fabricating 3 claims *shouldn't* take too long (though you know the RNG is a fickle mistress) though it would be expensive. That said, attacking a revolting single duchy would be a curb-stomp battle.

What are your thoughts?

Also, I've never used the invasion CB, I hear you want to occupy every county possible before enforcing demands...does that include all the lesser holdings? Or is securing each county capital enough? What happens to the French dukes if I win? Do they retain their titles, or do I get them too?

Lastly... what happens if my ruler dies mid-war with an invasion CB?

I only ask that because my dynasty has a nasty habit of getting claims... starting wars and then immediately dropping dead from something unrelated to the war.

 

[September]

Also, I've never used the invasion CB, I hear you want to occupy every county possible before enforcing demands...does that include all the lesser holdings? Or is securing each county capital enough? What happens to the French dukes if I win? Do they retain their titles, or do I get them too?

You get what you occupy, otherwise they are just turned into your vassals. So, if you secure the primary holding in each county, you will get all the counties, but you will be left with Frankish barons, bishops and mayors. If you occupy everything, then you can replace them, as you will get the baronies as well. That is why people say you should occupy everything.

If they still have holdings I think they will retain their titles. If you occupy everything, the titles are destroyed.

Lastly... what happens if my ruler dies mid-war with an invasion CB?

The war ends inconclusively.

 

[Pinstar]

I'm going to want to spread my Occitain culture to the rest of france. I know that culture spread is done on the county level so I'll at least make sure I get all the counties. Would having Frankish mayors/bishops/barons slow or prevent that? I know I'll get a 'foreigner' penalty with them until they are replaced...but realistically, I don't think there are enough occitain rulers to install one into every single lesser holding in France. I'd be scrounging around for random newborns to give cities.

Since I still have free investiture, I could always make sure all the frankish bishops are followed by occitan bishops.

I have one other question, unrelated .

I know that when you take over a kingdom, its previous laws/CA remains as it was. What about creating Aquitaine from scratch? I want to get to medium CA ASAP so my vassals don't start clumping up titles like kitty litter.

 

[icon41gimp]

I would expect to start at Autonomous Vassals, though you can probably immediately raise it to limited. Your vassals will be extra pissed though because the short reign penalty will be reset to -20 when you create the kingdom title.

 

[_krampe_]

Why go for King of Aquitaine when you can become King of France? Go for Invasion!!

When you occupy anything you can generate random vassals which will be all of your culture (right click on a minor holding and the button in the lower left)
I think only the county holder is important for the culture shift, but the culture of the county isn't that important anyway. The only negative aspect i noticed is the 1% revolt risk after the recently conquered penalty wore off.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

You definitely want the invasion. Invasions are awesome. You should be able to pull it off. I invaded France as Brittany once, although I also held most of Ireland. So about the same size as you. The trick is to use boats to dodge the French doomstacks, and when they separate into smaller group drop all your men on them and destroy them. Putting a general with organizer in charge of your army can also help because when you win a battle you can run to the next county before they arrive and get the defensive bonus instead of them.

You only need to take the top holding to wipe out every vassal in an invasion. So take the castle and then move on, leaving the bishop and city alone. When you win, every single vassal gets wiped out like a holy war -- even the bishops and cities you left alone.

The only great thing about invasion is they set the conquest culture of every title in France to your culture. So culture change of all of France to Occitan will happen much faster then usual.

 

[Pinstar]

Invasion HO! Quiver at the might of my armies! You can't possibly def---*dies of slow fever*

Seriously, that's how this resolved itself.

 

[jecjackal]

I've never used the invasion CB. I hear it requires piety (never had positive piety before. Something about my drunken wrothful irish king having more bastards than legit sons...).

So let me get this straight, if i had 500 piety, i could call an invasion on another cathloc nation and if i win, the counties i capture culture flip?

If so i might be time to start going to church...

 

[_krampe_]

When you win, you own all holdings you have captured and you can install people of your culture which can trigger the culture flip in 50-100 years.

 

[Bob_the_Insane]

You only need to take the top holding to wipe out every vassal in an invasion. So take the castle and then move on, leaving the bishop and city alone. When you win, every single vassal gets wiped out like a holy war -- even the bishops and cities you left alone.

This is the "thing I learned today"... thanks..

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

As did I.

You need 500 piety, the Pope to not like the other guy, and to be either a smaller realm, or have a claim on their primary title. So for instance, that's another way to say, dispute the succession of a foreign country, one which should allow you to create some order out of the vassals mess of some kingdom level claims you might have inherited.

It's also a nice way to get about half of the DJ Sicily if Genoa's blobbed as it always does.

 

[Zmieczemiogniem]

Originally Posted by Valinn
You only need to take the top holding to wipe out every vassal in an invasion. So take the castle and then move on, leaving the bishop and city alone. When you win, every single vassal gets wiped out like a holy war -- even the bishops and cities you left alone.

I'm pretty sure this is not correct, as I have done many invasions before and had to siege everything I wanted to own, including the holdings.

 

[Iron Chariots]

I'm pretty sure this is not correct, as I have done many invasions before and had to siege everything I wanted to own, including the holdings.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I've had the opposite experience: invaded a kingdom, occupied only the county-level holdings, and I got everything. I'm at work right now and can't test it, but I'm pretty sure that's how my last few invasions went.

 

[Martinus]

What year is this? Another, more "pacifist" method to consider is wait until Toulouse flips to France and then create Aquitaine with what you have.